121–130 of 232 posts
If only this could actually be used...it definitely serves the purpose of an admission essay (namely, that the author is an excellent writer and clearly intelligent).
YCombinator is all tied up with VCs and incubators and such, right? In other contexts such as applying for various types of placements, are people's comment histories reviewed (including whatever amount of doxing is possible via server logs etc) to weed out "bad eggs"? Cuz, I sure wouldn't hire anybody on here who is condoning or defending in any way cheating in school, even in the most oblique way.
Hillary Clinton and Ronald Reagan (and many others) had their autobiographies ghostwritten [1] and no one seems to really care. The definition of "autobiography" means a biography of yourself, written by you. So why do we hold different standards to academia as opposed to non-academia?
When you hire a web designer to design a website, you aren't obligated to credit the designer (if the designer doesn't mind).
I can certainly see why copying someone's essay or test answers would be cheating, and should be penalized. In a standardized curriculum the students should become proficient at the subject matter by the degree program. Allowing students to cheat would lessen the value of the degree and thus no one would want to attend that school.
But ghostwriting for college admissions? It's doing whatever you can to increase your odds of acceptance. Some people pay money for test prep (most of which is just vocabulary drilling). Some people pay money for "college counseling." Some people pay money for personal statements.
Some commenters here are saying that ghostwriting personal statements makes it unfair for the lower-income families, but test prep is definitely not cheap. SAT prep could go anywhere from $500 to $1000, for a weekend course. No lower-income family could afford SAT prep, so if we view ghostwriting as "unfair" then test prep should be unfair by the same logic.
If someone doesn't want to hire me because we hold different views on the definition of cheating, then I respect the person's opinion but I certainly wouldn't want to be hired due to too many clashes of views most likely.
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Exactly but I see nothing wrong with this. If universities are willing to accept students not based on merit but on a touching story, then they had it coming. People who admit one to these universities in general are not alumni of that school, did not go through the same experience and are not experts in the subject one wants to study. It is ludicrous to expect them to differentiate good candidates from bad ones. Als…
Oxford and Cambridge professors are conducting multiple technical interviews with each candidate for centuries for both domestic and international students. And today C and O admit based on comprehensive objective tests just like almost all of the world's elite universities outside the USA. US universities could avail themselves of that system, if their priority were academic quality or equality and fairness.
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It's hard to see how this levels the playing field in practice. The "bright lower-income students" you mention don't have access to these expensive services.
These admissions consultants are a lot more attainable than the Ivy-league family members that would be able to give the same guidance.
This is a bit disheartening to me, but not surprising. I know of several people who have used this type of service, and some who have provided it. For me, my essay was the difference in attending the likes of Harvard - my essay was egregiously bad, and it was explained to me by the director of admissions of one Ivy League school via a family friend who was a professor at that same university as the primary reason for…
Can you elaborate on specifically what made your essay bad?
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Is the student who hires a consultant to tell them what classes to take, or what clubs to join, or what organizations to volunteer for, and then follows through with those, less deserving of a spot than someone that happens to randomly fall upon the right combination of activities? Yes, I think that's the general idea. Ideally the criteria are kept secret of course. It's the same as picking employees who do open sour…
I think that's stupid, and gives an unfair advantage to people from more educated and/or connected backgrounds. Instead of blaming admissions consultants, I'd blame the colleges using these bullshit proxy metrics.
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Can you elaborate on specifically what made your essay bad?
My writing was just not that great at times before attending college - ironically, when I took a philosophy summer class the summer before the semester started, everything just clicked and I suddenly started to be able to write pretty well.
This is a bit disheartening to me, but not surprising. I know of several people who have used this type of service, and some who have provided it. For me, my essay was the difference in attending the likes of Harvard - my essay was egregiously bad, and it was explained to me by the director of admissions of one Ivy League school via a family friend who was a professor at that same university as the primary reason for…
I'll never understand the mindset where not going to an Ivy is a "setback." That's not meant to be an insult at all, if it sounded like one. Good for you for having that attitude, of course, but that's such a foreign state of mind to me. I stumbled across the finish line in high school and self-destructed in college. Things have worked out but I wonder what even a small change in state of mind would have done for me…
I ended up attending a state school, applying last minute in April.
She only charges $400?! That's crazy. What Ivy leagure candidate COULDN'T afford that? At those prices I'm surprised anyone writes their own letters.
> She only charges $400?! That's crazy. That's ¥2,500.00. The current median Chinese income is ¥63,875 ($10,220). So one essay produces 4% of a typical annual income, for what might only be a few hours' work. Twenty essays, and you're approaching the median income of your harder-working neighbors.
YCombinator is all tied up with VCs and incubators and such, right? In other contexts such as applying for various types of placements, are people's comment histories reviewed (including whatever amount of doxing is possible via server logs etc) to weed out "bad eggs"? Cuz, I sure wouldn't hire anybody on here who is condoning or defending in any way cheating in school, even in the most oblique way.
What I want to know is what the difference between ghostwriting for school purposes, and ghostwriting for literary purposes, is. Hillary Clinton and Ronald Reagan (and many others) had their autobiographies ghostwritten [1] and no one seems to really care. The definition of "autobiography" means a biography of yourself, written by you. So why do we hold different standards to academia as opposed to non-academia? When…
Easily explained. Ghostwriting in academia is a violation of academic ethics, a basis for expulsion or withdrawal of a granted degree. Ghostwriting in the everyday world is accepted, indeed it's not uncommon to see a ghostwriter's name alongside the putative author's name on the book's cover. In fact, that represents the only acceptable use of a ghostwriter, by simply acknowledging his contribution.
> No lower-income family could afford SAT prep, so if we view ghostwriting as "unfair" then test prep should be unfair by the same logic.
Yes, there's some logic there, but ghostwriting doesn't expose the student to the material to be learned, but test prep does. One might even argue that all classroom time is test prep.