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I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

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Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#61

Post by ploxiln »

WoodenChair wrote: post #39
jurassic wrote: post #34

Really interesting piece. In my post-college lull, I was once in a major financial bind and ended up doing a brief stint as an academic ghostwriter. I wrote term papers, not admission essays, for a ghostwriting service over a period of about 2 months. The work was easy and the money was good. I felt pretty guilty doing the work at first, but I quickly realized that most of the assignments were so banal that I don't t…

I really appreciate your honesty and the knowledge you shared here, but I fear your rationalizations about why what you did is not unethical are just that - rationalizations. It's wrong to do others work for them and let them represent it as their own, no matter how mundane the subject matter. It lets them receive qualifications that they didn't earn and others who want those qualifications in competition with them,…

It's probably fair if those degrees / professions which are based on bullshit essays have a lot of bullshit graduates / good-looking applicants.

(Yes I'm a bit bitter about high school english courses and college admissions processes favouring good bullshitters. I was still accepted to a good engineering school and had good success job hunting by demonstrating my skills in-person, so it ended well for me anyway.)

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#63

Post by superuser2 »

rayiner wrote: post #40
asdfologist wrote: post #2

First of all - wow, what a talented writer. No wonder her clients have done so well. Forgery of college admissions essays is rampant not just in China but also in the US (and I suspect in many other places), but actually the problem is really much worse than that. With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - tellin…

> With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - telling them what classes to take, which clubs to join, where and how many hours they should volunteer, etc. I don't really get this perspective. If colleges are going to base admissions on amorphous things like what clubs someone joined, or what organizations they vol…

Idealistically, these aren't things that you're "supposed" to do. You're not supposed to live your life to get into good schools. Admissions counselors will tell you this explicitly. They want you to what you would normally do, and if you happen to be exceptional, they'll pick you. You should also never assume that you or your child actually has any business being academically exceptional. That's just statistical fact.

You're not supposed to prep for standardized tests, either. They're trying to function like IQ tests - a measure of who you are and your education as a whole, not how you studied. ACT and College Board have a wealth of data available, and have concluded that engaging in prep activities between sittings moves your score by at most a few points.

Of course, once it's a social expectation that children of elite parents will go to elite schools, they're willing to throw money at gaming the system. Though a natural consequence of the free market, it still feels distasteful.

Providing these sorts of services freely or cheaply as a charitable organization trying to help rural kids/new immigrant families get on their feet is one thing; charging many hundreds of dollars per hour to a clientele of investment bankers who need to impress their colleagues with their children's admissions is different.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#64

Post by ps4fanboy »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #15

I am not sure why this is directed towards China. There are certainly more Americans paying Americans to write their essays every semester. EDIT: Oh Fucking ?? , guys what is up with the downvotes? This is just idiotic. If you disagree, voice it. It's ok, perhaps I am mistaken, enlighten me. But downvoting without giving a comment is like telling me I am wrong without giving me a direction. "You wouldn't laugh at som…

Every time China is mentioned on HN there is someone complaining about it in the comments, whats with that?

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#66

Post by ploxiln »

WoodenChair wrote: post #38
w1ntermute wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top universities (such as those in the Ivy League) typically give full financial aid to any admitted student who comes from a middle or lower class socioeconomic background. The "tuition problem" primarily exists at mediocre private universities (as well as those public universities that have significantly hiked tuition in recent years) which depend on squeezing every last penny from their students.

This is absolutely true and often shocks applicants that I meet in alumni interviews (although some know it well). Most of the Ivy League offers a full ride (as an official policy) for students who come from families with <$100k/year in income. This is not merit-based, it's need-based. It's a nasty misconception of "anti-elitists" that the Ivy League is only for the rich (although as others have pointed out there are…

Not necessarily true. My family made about that amount, but went without some luxuries and saved for my (and my sister's) high school ($25k/yr) and college ($45k/yr). There were a few years where tuition+room+board for my sister and I was more than their after-tax income. And no, we don't have a large amount of wealth from a previous generation, my parents started near zero just a couple years before I was born. But we never got any financial aid. I had friends who's parents made more, but got 50% financial aid. The financial aid system would appear to be just another bullshit-gamed system.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#68

Post by jfoutz »

WoodenChair wrote: post #60
jfoutz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Security is up to the grantor of the certification. It really can't be any other way. Asking students to be ethical is worthwhile, but it's sort of like the pull-out method of contraception - just not very effective.

>Security is up to the grantor of the certification. I'm not exactly sure what you're replying to. I didn't say anything about security - I simply was making the point that participation in this effort is largely unethical.

I see, I was confused about your point. I jumped to the conclusion that you were arguing a qualification implied an ethical standard.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#69

Post by sehr »

foobarqux wrote: post #56

Can anyone recommend admission consultants or give any advice about using them? I want to help a highschooler out.

Asking for consultancy advice in the comments section of an article focused on cheating that very system.

Is this what we've come to?

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#70

Post by jiggy2011 »

rayiner wrote: post #40
asdfologist wrote: post #2

First of all - wow, what a talented writer. No wonder her clients have done so well. Forgery of college admissions essays is rampant not just in China but also in the US (and I suspect in many other places), but actually the problem is really much worse than that. With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - tellin…

> With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - telling them what classes to take, which clubs to join, where and how many hours they should volunteer, etc. I don't really get this perspective. If colleges are going to base admissions on amorphous things like what clubs someone joined, or what organizations they vol…

Is the student who hires a consultant to tell them what classes to take, or what clubs to join, or what organizations to volunteer for, and then follows through with those, less deserving of a spot than someone that happens to randomly fall upon the right combination of activities?

Yes, I think that's the general idea. Ideally the criteria are kept secret of course. It's the same as picking employees who do open source or learnt Haskell in their spare time. You want people who independently make certain choices for reasons unrelated to getting a college place or a job, but the signal is much less useful when everyone knows that you are looking for it.

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