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Apple Working with American Express on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments

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Re: Apple Working with American Express on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments

#61

Post by ZenoArrow »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #59
twoodfin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most PoS systems in the U.S. are being updated to read chipped cards for the big EMV-related liability shift[1], anyway, so it makes sense to add NFC while they're at it. [1] http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-234B-3681

Isn't NFC much less secure though than chip and pin?

Yes it is. It's possible to charge contactless payment cards even when they're in someone's wallet. That said, it is certainly possible for the implementation to be more secure on smartphones. I knew as soon as I saw the fingerprint scanner and iBeacon tech in the current iPhones that this is what Apple would be aiming for.

Re: Apple Working with American Express on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments

#62

Post by threeseed »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #59
twoodfin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most PoS systems in the U.S. are being updated to read chipped cards for the big EMV-related liability shift[1], anyway, so it makes sense to add NFC while they're at it. [1] http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-234B-3681

Isn't NFC much less secure though than chip and pin?

That is why in most countries (I can't speak for the US) they cap the maximum withdraw limit to something like $100. That way the risk to the bank and consumer is minimal.

Here in Australia our largest bank (Commonwealth Bank) has an app that will generate a code that you can enter into the ATM to make a withdrawal i.e. card not required. It has a similar risk profile to NFC.

Re: Apple Working with American Express on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments

#63

Post by snom380 »

personZ wrote: post #47
marcobooth wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I rarely use NFC payments for any purchases. If Apple gets into the payment space, I probably will. The reason they get credit is that people actually use the solutions they provide.

The reason they get credit is that people actually use the solutions they provide. The entire payment industry is moving to chip / NFC, and the parent offers up that maybe Whole Foods is prepping for Apple. No, they aren't. They're prepping for, again, the entire payment industry. Hundreds of products across all major payment vendors. You haven't used it because the US payment space in particular is very slow, but so…

Is the payment industry prepping for fingerprint authenticated NFC?

In half a year we're likely to see discussions about how whatever Apple is launching in 9 days was "obvious" and how they once again just happened to catch the wave at the right time. And for some reason other companies suddenly find it technologically feasible to fit NFC into their wearables, something that was apparently impossible before 9.9. 2014.

Re: Apple Working with American Express on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments

#64

Post by mpclark »

meepmorp wrote: post #35
superuser2 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do a particularly weird instrument called a "charge card." It's not a debit card because it's not pulling straight from a checking account, but there's no long-term line of credit either. It's like a credit card that you're actually required to pay in full every month. So no different from responsible credit card use, but still not credit.

> They do a particularly weird instrument called a "charge card." It should be noted that they also offer regular credit cards, in addition to the charge card, and these do not require payment in full at the end of the bill cycle.

And prepaid cards too, iirc, through Walmart.

Edit: ignore me, I see somebody else has already mentioned this further down...

Re: Apple Working with American Express on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments

#65

Post by mpclark »

jamescun wrote: post #24
julianpye wrote: post #6

Apple working with 'INSERT ANY CC PROVIDER' on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments... More interesting is the question which technology will be used. NFC has to play a role here, because the technology is in the market and scalable. My weirder and more riskier bet is that NFC on the Apple wearable will refit all older iPhones with mobile payments. Until now noone has put NFC on a wearable, even though it makes most sense to hav…

While no wearable device has NFC, you can get bracelets with contactless payment chips. Barclaycard's BPay is a good example[1] [1] https://bpayband.co.uk/

I have one of these. It's great, and always draws comment when I use it. But it is just a small contactless card, of the type you might stick to the back of your phone, in a cavity in a rubber bracelet.

I had a wristwatch a couple of years ago that had an NFC sim in it for payments too, but that never worked reliably.

Re: Apple Working with American Express on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments

#66

Post by [deleted] »

jamescun wrote: post #24
julianpye wrote: post #6

Apple working with 'INSERT ANY CC PROVIDER' on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments... More interesting is the question which technology will be used. NFC has to play a role here, because the technology is in the market and scalable. My weirder and more riskier bet is that NFC on the Apple wearable will refit all older iPhones with mobile payments. Until now noone has put NFC on a wearable, even though it makes most sense to hav…

While no wearable device has NFC, you can get bracelets with contactless payment chips. Barclaycard's BPay is a good example[1] [1] https://bpayband.co.uk/

[deleted]

Re: Apple Working with American Express on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments

#67

Post by [deleted] »

jamescun wrote: post #24
julianpye wrote: post #6

Apple working with 'INSERT ANY CC PROVIDER' on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments... More interesting is the question which technology will be used. NFC has to play a role here, because the technology is in the market and scalable. My weirder and more riskier bet is that NFC on the Apple wearable will refit all older iPhones with mobile payments. Until now noone has put NFC on a wearable, even though it makes most sense to hav…

While no wearable device has NFC, you can get bracelets with contactless payment chips. Barclaycard's BPay is a good example[1] [1] https://bpayband.co.uk/

[deleted]

Re: Apple Working with American Express on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments

#68

Post by saryant »

Theodores wrote: post #50
rmc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American Express is not commonly supported outside the USA.

Seems some people beg to differ. However AMEX costs more for the retailer, therefore, with everyone already with Visa/MC, why, as a retailer allow people to pay with AMEX? If you want to double your transaction costs, eat into your profit margin, have more admin for the book-keeper, then why not!!! Part of the point of AMEX is that everyone is insured against scammers that bit more, hence the higher price/charges, ho…

Chip and PIN has nothing to do with Amex's consumer-friendly chargeback policies. C+P tries to prevent fraudulent transactions, charebacks give consumers over misbehaving merchants.

Re: Apple Working with American Express on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments

#69

Post by personZ »

snom380 wrote: post #63
personZ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason they get credit is that people actually use the solutions they provide. The entire payment industry is moving to chip / NFC, and the parent offers up that maybe Whole Foods is prepping for Apple. No, they aren't. They're prepping for, again, the entire payment industry. Hundreds of products across all major payment vendors. You haven't used it because the US payment space in particular is very slow, but so…

Is the payment industry prepping for fingerprint authenticated NFC? In half a year we're likely to see discussions about how whatever Apple is launching in 9 days was "obvious" and how they once again just happened to catch the wave at the right time. And for some reason other companies suddenly find it technologically feasible to fit NFC into their wearables, something that was apparently impossible before 9.9. 2014…

Not only do you hold up things that Apple hasn't released, gloating about their grand innovation of vapour, you apparently don't realize that credit cards have NFC. There is nothing "impossible" about fitting NFC in just about anything, and your strawman simply makes no sense at all.

Fingerprint authenticated NFC? That would be solving a complete non-problem, misunderstanding the whole role of NFC.

You can get business cards with NFC. Every Skylander action figure has NFC in it. Credit and payment cards have NFC. But here you're comically holding that putting it in a wearable will be a grand innovation.

This sort of bubble and ignorance is extraordinary. But yes, I fully expect that after Apple releases something, years after so many others embraced NFC, you'll go forth telling all how innovative they were.

Re: Apple Working with American Express on iPhone 6 Mobile Payments

#70

Post by Crito »

Theodores wrote: post #50
rmc wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American Express is not commonly supported outside the USA.

Seems some people beg to differ. However AMEX costs more for the retailer, therefore, with everyone already with Visa/MC, why, as a retailer allow people to pay with AMEX? If you want to double your transaction costs, eat into your profit margin, have more admin for the book-keeper, then why not!!! Part of the point of AMEX is that everyone is insured against scammers that bit more, hence the higher price/charges, ho…

CC fraud in America, contrary to popular European belief, is not a problem for American consumers. American consumers are not liable for fraudulent charges made with their card; resolving them is a simple matter of telling your CC company that the charge was fraudulent (the majority of the time, the CC company has already figured that out themselves).

Chip and Pin buys American consumers fuck-all; it is merchants and CC companies that benefit.

European consumers seem to want American consumers to have chip and pin more than American consumers want it for themselves. It is truly bizarre. Are you guys getting a "refer your friends" commission or something?

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