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I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

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Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#51

Post by canjobear »

rayiner wrote: post #40
asdfologist wrote: post #2

First of all - wow, what a talented writer. No wonder her clients have done so well. Forgery of college admissions essays is rampant not just in China but also in the US (and I suspect in many other places), but actually the problem is really much worse than that. With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - tellin…

> With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - telling them what classes to take, which clubs to join, where and how many hours they should volunteer, etc. I don't really get this perspective. If colleges are going to base admissions on amorphous things like what clubs someone joined, or what organizations they vol…

It's hard to see how this levels the playing field in practice. The "bright lower-income students" you mention don't have access to these expensive services.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#52

Post by Mz »

soneca wrote: post #49
sliverstorm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO with a consultant, you aren't passing someone else's work off as your own, which is the truly dishonest part. Soliciting help, even if it is for pay, is not against the rules to my memory. I know I had friends and family read my essays.

I agree that the ethical line is there. Hut I am saying when a professional consultant tells you what to write and checks your every sentence, it is as fake as a ghost writer (with an interview)

I think the critical difference is that when you pay someone to do the work for you, you do not actually learn anything. When you hire a consultant, you do learn something.

Maybe in a way that doesn't matter since it is not really part of the curriculum, but when I took a biology class at a community college, the professor talked about, I don't know, curving the grade or something and people in the class made some comment about "hey, just give us all A's without requiring us to learn anything" or something like that -- in other words, they were just there to tick off a box towards a sheepskin. And I spoke up to say "Um, what if you actually need to know this for a later class or even a job?"

Yeah, I have always been a party-pooper like that. But, seriously, some folks just want the sheepskin and do not care if they earned it and some folks want the know-how and sort of don't care so much about the public credibility thing. I tend to be in the latter category, and sometimes wonder how much that is to my benefit and how much to my detriment. I know how to accomplish all kinds of things but I seem to mostly suck at getting any kind of credit, credibility, decent pay, that sort of thing.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#53

Post by jtzhou »

learc83 wrote: post #28
rokhayakebe wrote: post #15

I am not sure why this is directed towards China. There are certainly more Americans paying Americans to write their essays every semester. EDIT: Oh Fucking ?? , guys what is up with the downvotes? This is just idiotic. If you disagree, voice it. It's ok, perhaps I am mistaken, enlighten me. But downvoting without giving a comment is like telling me I am wrong without giving me a direction. "You wouldn't laugh at som…

Because it's written by a woman who writes essays for Chinese students.

She writes for anyone who is willing to pay her $400 per essay. It is not just for the children of wealthy Chinese, and many Chinese people choose to write their own.

The system is broken if it cannot distinguish between a fraudulent essay and real one and is using that measure as integral for admissions. Many universities have specialized questions (almost as a CAPTCHA) to make sure students are serious about applying there. Test scores, teacher evaluations, and an applicant's résumé are often much more important criteria.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#55

Post by rayiner »

canjobear wrote: post #51
rayiner wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With the boom of the "college consultants" industry, professionals are essentially "forging" entire high school careers on behalf of their clients - telling them what classes to take, which clubs to join, where and how many hours they should volunteer, etc. I don't really get this perspective. If colleges are going to base admissions on amorphous things like what clubs someone joined, or what organizations they vol…

It's hard to see how this levels the playing field in practice. The "bright lower-income students" you mention don't have access to these expensive services.

These admissions consultants are a lot more attainable than the Ivy-league family members that would be able to give the same guidance.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#57

Post by jfoutz »

WoodenChair wrote: post #39
jurassic wrote: post #34

Really interesting piece. In my post-college lull, I was once in a major financial bind and ended up doing a brief stint as an academic ghostwriter. I wrote term papers, not admission essays, for a ghostwriting service over a period of about 2 months. The work was easy and the money was good. I felt pretty guilty doing the work at first, but I quickly realized that most of the assignments were so banal that I don't t…

I really appreciate your honesty and the knowledge you shared here, but I fear your rationalizations about why what you did is not unethical are just that - rationalizations. It's wrong to do others work for them and let them represent it as their own, no matter how mundane the subject matter. It lets them receive qualifications that they didn't earn and others who want those qualifications in competition with them,…

Security is up to the grantor of the certification. It really can't be any other way. Asking students to be ethical is worthwhile, but it's sort of like the pull-out method of contraception - just not very effective.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#58

Post by gbhn »

soneca wrote: post #5

I have several friends here in Brazil that were accepted in top USA MBAs. All of them are very smart, but all of them hired a consultant to help with admission process. No one hired a ghost writer, all of them wrote their own essays, but in all cases the consultant asked them to rewrite 5 or 6 times, at least. There it is where it seems to exist the ethical line: ghost writer, no good; rewrite yourself until every si…

One things all these stories really emphasize is how much of a hurdle it is for a first-generation college student to get into a top school. It isn't just other bright high schoolers you're in competition with, it is a whole system which is coaching, supporting and, sometimes apparently, doing very professionalized admissions management on their behalf.

It would take an extremely exceptional high schooler to navigate that all alone.

Or perhaps, if admissions offices are looking for exactly that story, all the consultants are just trying to produce exactly what they'd write naturally? :-)

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#59

Post by westiseast »

When I studied at a university in Fuzhou, I wrote a fair few things for friends (both students and teachers) - admissions applications, letters of reference, essays, correspondence etc. Some was just helping with language errors, some was translation and some was just downright faking (ie. "my professor is my brothers cousins uncles best friend, he said you can write whatever you want"). I figured I wrote my fair share of bullshit on my university application and subsequent job forms, so this wasn't much different...

One of the most common problems was just about bridging the gap between Chinese/Western expectations - Chinese reference letters are sometimes pages long, and filled with flowery and extravagant language to describe the candidate, whereas a Western reference letter would be concise, professional and often maybe just 2-3 short paragraphs.

Re: I Ghostwrite Chinese Students' Ivy League Admissions Essays

#60

Post by WoodenChair »

jfoutz wrote: post #57
WoodenChair wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really appreciate your honesty and the knowledge you shared here, but I fear your rationalizations about why what you did is not unethical are just that - rationalizations. It's wrong to do others work for them and let them represent it as their own, no matter how mundane the subject matter. It lets them receive qualifications that they didn't earn and others who want those qualifications in competition with them,…

Security is up to the grantor of the certification. It really can't be any other way. Asking students to be ethical is worthwhile, but it's sort of like the pull-out method of contraception - just not very effective.

>Security is up to the grantor of the certification.

I'm not exactly sure what you're replying to. I didn't say anything about security - I simply was making the point that participation in this effort is largely unethical.

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