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America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.

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Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.

#41

Post by nick-dap »

netsp wrote: post #27
nick-dap wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't know if thats the case. It is not unreasonable to demand from Congress that they pass multiple legislations that address an area as complex as immigration (or healthcare for that matter). We are eagerly following the all encompassing reforms, while what we actually need is for Congress to make legislation continuously. Who would have thought that this was their job? Instead we make a big deal about b…

What sort of legislation relating to your personal position do you think should be passed? I was simply making a more general point about restrictions on immigration. If you take in to account all effects including the immigrant, the destination and the country of origin, you get a terrible economic net loss. It is similar to restricting trade in goods and services.

The DREAM Act is the legislation that would help. people like me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DREAM_Act

http://dreamact.info/

We need your support in pressuring legislators to action.

Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.

#42

Post by nick-dap »

nearestneighbor wrote: post #30
nick-dap wrote: post #17

Two words. DREAM Act. http://dreamact.info I was brought to the United States by my parents at a very young age. In the process I have inherited the title of an "illegal immigrant" from my parents. The DREAM Act is a legislation 10 years in the making. We have thousands of enterpreneurs, scientists, engineers, nurses, doctors, talent in every field imaginable going to waste in the United States; living in the shadows…

I'm curious, how did you get in and through college (tuition, enrollment, etc.) without an ID or a bank account? I lived in NYC myself. Besides not having to drive, is it really a better place to be for undocumented immigrants?

There are state level DREAM Act legislations that offer a path to college for undocumented students, but no path to legalization. If I recall correctly there are currently 10 states that have some form of such legislation: California, Illinois, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Texas, Utah, Washington, and since this past Spring, Wisconsin. These states have urged action on the federal level, as this is the only thing that would really solve the problem.

That, working my ass off, working my ass off some more, and a whole lot of help from people who care about me, to whom I am in debt for the rest of my life. I know too many who are not as lucky as me and it tears me apart to see their dreams shattered for no sensible reason and no wrongdoing of their own.

NYC is a better place for undocumented immigrants because you can rely on the police to help you, they are legally prevented from inquiring about your immigration status. On the other hand, we have stories of valedictorians being thrown into jail and put into deportation proceedings for rolling a stop sign in places like Texas (some people were able to get driver licenses a while back, in some states, no longer possible).

Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.

#43

Post by stonemetal »

jacquesm wrote: post #40
stonemetal wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age has no bearing on the legality of the action in question. So yes you are a criminal weather you are 6 months or 60 years old. I am pretty sure they treat you differently based on age though. I can't see them deporting a 6 month old without a care taker like they would an adult. I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible to set up a mail relay to "leave" the country while you work on your citizenship papers. Nor…

> So yes you are a criminal weather you are 6 months or 60 years old. We seem to have a different opinion on that. Personally I think that any system - and any person - that can treat 6 months olds as criminals is seriously broken, and to be held in contempt.

It isn't like the punishment is something horrible. We don't put illegal emigrants in Leavenworth. We give them a free plane ride home. Where they are fully able to try to come into the country again legally or illegally.

Believe what you like. Personally I am happy with the fact that murder is illegal for everyone not just people over the age of 35. Personally I am happy that theft is illegal to everyone not just people over the age of 40. Personally I like the fact that courts are allowed to deal with assaults committed by minors and even have special rules regarding their care. I believe you have to have rules that apply to everybody, you can't decide that this isn't a crime today but wake up tomorrow and you get death row for it.

Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.

#44

Post by nick-dap »

4chan4ever wrote: post #31
nearestneighbor wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, how did you get in and through college (tuition, enrollment, etc.) without an ID or a bank account? I lived in NYC myself. Besides not having to drive, is it really a better place to be for undocumented immigrants?

Well I'll be the lone dissenting voice here. Downmod away... First, I think illegal immigration is still ILLEGAL immigration and yes, the laws need to be reformed but until they are, let's not be too devious in how we aid and abet criminal behaviors. Second and more to the point, anybody who's considering immigrating to the US of A (or Canada) for "technology" will face a rude awakening in another 5-10 years. You're…

Over the years that I've been working towards the passage of the DREAM Act legislation this has been the most effective rhetoric used by our opposition.

"Until the laws change illegal is illegal. We need to enforce the law not change it, illegal is illegal. ILLEGAL"

Did you know that there is butter that isn't butter?

If only our valedectorians got as deep a look as butter did. A man can dream.

Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.

#45

Post by nick-dap »

4chan4ever wrote: post #31
nearestneighbor wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, how did you get in and through college (tuition, enrollment, etc.) without an ID or a bank account? I lived in NYC myself. Besides not having to drive, is it really a better place to be for undocumented immigrants?

Well I'll be the lone dissenting voice here. Downmod away... First, I think illegal immigration is still ILLEGAL immigration and yes, the laws need to be reformed but until they are, let's not be too devious in how we aid and abet criminal behaviors. Second and more to the point, anybody who's considering immigrating to the US of A (or Canada) for "technology" will face a rude awakening in another 5-10 years. You're…

First, I am done, d o n e, debating the legality of my existence. Normally you debate to reach a compromise. In this case, "debating" these laws, and people like me along with them, out of existence is the strategy of our opposition. They are not interested in compromise. While we debate, the time is ticking, and then, before you know it the Congressional session is over. Lather, rinse, repeat.

They even came up with a name for it, "enforcement through attrition." Make our life so horrible that we opt for voluntary departure. How fucked up is that? How full of bigotry do you have to be to come up with something like that?

To people who truly want to help, stop debating, stop listening. Start pressuring your legislators to action!

Second, I didn't immigrate here for "technology" or anything else. I grew up here. I went to school with brilliant engineers who now do brilliant things. I think YC itself is a testament to the talent that exists in this country. So, good luck with that thinking.

Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.

#46

Post by jacquesm »

stonemetal wrote: post #43
jacquesm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So yes you are a criminal weather you are 6 months or 60 years old. We seem to have a different opinion on that. Personally I think that any system - and any person - that can treat 6 months olds as criminals is seriously broken, and to be held in contempt.

It isn't like the punishment is something horrible. We don't put illegal emigrants in Leavenworth. We give them a free plane ride home. Where they are fully able to try to come into the country again legally or illegally. Believe what you like. Personally I am happy with the fact that murder is illegal for everyone not just people over the age of 35. Personally I am happy that theft is illegal to everyone not just pe…

> We give them a free plane ride home.

For someone that was brought in to the US and is now at an age to have completed their secondary education home is the United States. No amount of paper waving and applying of the rules is going to change that.

Anyway, I'm wasting my time with this, I only wish that in your life you will never ever come up against a situation where you will be forced to realize just how cruel your stance is.

We're not debating murder here, that's just a straw man. We are not dealing with assault, committed by minors or otherwise.

The subject was immigration, specifically by minors too young to even realize what that means.

Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.

#47

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

giardini wrote: post #38
joe_the_user wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a few people have mentioned Canada's skills-based system. This sounds far and away better and clearer than the unmanageable "Founder's Visa". BUT REGARDLESS, America will not be "The World's Tech Leader" with American elementary and secondary schools in the shape that they presently are in (and more multiple choice testing isn't it either..). Funny how this never gets mentioned in these "Tech Leader" debates (c…

joe_the_user says: "America will not be 'The World's Tech Leader' with American elementary and secondary schools in the shape that they presently are in" Unconvincing. Despite the current state of affairs in elementary/secondary schooling the US graduates more Ph.D.'s in most fields than can find suitable jobs Excluding occasional shortages there are more than enough excellent students in the US education pipeline to…

How many of those PhDs went to elementary & secondary education in the US?

Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.

#48

Post by stonemetal »

jacquesm wrote: post #46
stonemetal wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't like the punishment is something horrible. We don't put illegal emigrants in Leavenworth. We give them a free plane ride home. Where they are fully able to try to come into the country again legally or illegally. Believe what you like. Personally I am happy with the fact that murder is illegal for everyone not just people over the age of 35. Personally I am happy that theft is illegal to everyone not just pe…

> We give them a free plane ride home. For someone that was brought in to the US and is now at an age to have completed their secondary education home is the United States. No amount of paper waving and applying of the rules is going to change that. Anyway, I'm wasting my time with this, I only wish that in your life you will never ever come up against a situation where you will be forced to realize just how cruel yo…

  you will be forced to realize just how cruel your stance is.
What is cruel about expecting people to live by the rules they have agreed to live by? Yes and he is a grown up now and has known for years that he is in the wrong. Instead of doing the right thing he complains about how we should all just love him for it. It would be a big relief for him if he went home no more fear of being discovered, no more I can't do that because I might be found out, the ability to get an id, bank account, health insurance, take the GRE. If he wanted to go to grad school he could be back in a semester on a student visa.(according to travel.state.gov a student visa takes at most 120 days and $300)

  The subject was immigration, specifically by 
  minors too young to even realize what that means.
No I was talking about the fact that the rules apply to everyone, and the fact that is not a bad thing like you seem to think it is.

Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.

#49

Post by joe_the_user »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #47
giardini wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

joe_the_user says: "America will not be 'The World's Tech Leader' with American elementary and secondary schools in the shape that they presently are in" Unconvincing. Despite the current state of affairs in elementary/secondary schooling the US graduates more Ph.D.'s in most fields than can find suitable jobs Excluding occasional shortages there are more than enough excellent students in the US education pipeline to…

How many of those PhDs went to elementary & secondary education in the US?

Uh, did you even notice that PhDs still go to elementary school?

Re: America can't be the world's tech leader without immigration reform.

#50

Post by leecho0 »

stonemetal wrote: post #39
jacquesm wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your parents take you along on their illegal trip as a child that does not make YOU a criminal, it makes you a victim, but the system will treat you as though you are a criminal.

Age has no bearing on the legality of the action in question. So yes you are a criminal weather you are 6 months or 60 years old. I am pretty sure they treat you differently based on age though. I can't see them deporting a 6 month old without a care taker like they would an adult. I wouldn't be surprised if it were possible to set up a mail relay to "leave" the country while you work on your citizenship papers. Nor…

It does. If you are born in the US, you're automatically naturalized, even if your parents are illegal citizens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#B...

6 months difference between legal and illegal seems a bit arbitrary.

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