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From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

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61–70 of 114 posts

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#61
post #14

How does airing even more dirty laundry in public around this help anyone involved? Both sides need to seek professional (paid!) advice on how to handle this situation and then handle it in PRIVATE . Bitching about something that happened on the Internet is not productive and will only give the other side's lawyers things to use against you if a suit happens. Someone needs to sue someone. Otherwise just shut up, both…

I think the OP has a right to say "You don't know the whole truth" simply just to inform readers that they are only getting one side of the story. However, I do agree that the rest should be left to private discussions between legal representation.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#63
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends what the contract is for. If it's for "programming", then you have to pay, no matter what program you receive. However, if it's for "complete and functional product", then unless they produce that, you don't need to pay. Like in a restaurant, if you order pizza, and get steak, why would you pay?

If you eat the steak you have to pay. Even "complete and functional product" is unlikely wording as very open to interpretation. Quite likely the contract is vague, people often do not lock these things down well at the start.

They're claiming they didn't eat the steak but went and cooked a new pizza.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#64
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends what the contract is for. If it's for "programming", then you have to pay, no matter what program you receive. However, if it's for "complete and functional product", then unless they produce that, you don't need to pay. Like in a restaurant, if you order pizza, and get steak, why would you pay?

If you eat the steak you have to pay. Even "complete and functional product" is unlikely wording as very open to interpretation. Quite likely the contract is vague, people often do not lock these things down well at the start.

But if the steak comes, even if you say to a friend "this steak looks lovely" (eg using alpha for a product briefing with investors) and when you cut in to it it's raw or has a cyst or something then you send it back, you don't pay for it then. That's the implied contract at work.

What's the implied contract here? Well we shouldn't need to ask, there should be an actual contract to refer to.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#65
I once recorded a band. I thought we made a pretty good record, but they said they were unhappy and didn't want to pay me. Then they released the record.

My point: this kind of thing isn't limited to software development. If you benefit from someone else's work, pay them.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#66
post #10

Since both parties are in agreement as to what actions were taken, why don't you show us the contract so that we can determine who acted appropriately?

This sounds like a bad idea. We are not King Solomon, nor should either party want his help. For simplicity's sake, neither party should take the opinion of anyone other than a lawyer on this.

Neither party should be here on HN with this, frankly...

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#68

Why the heck is "allegedly" in scare quotes? "Allegedly" is exactly the proper word to use. There were allegations made. We don't know what happened. Also, this drama playing out in public is a very bad idea for all parties involved. EDIT Title no longer has "allegedly" in scare quotes.

That's my favorite part. I clicked here expecting more evidence that they stole. "Stole" should be in scare quotes, if anything.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#69
This post makes your company look considerably less professional than it otherwise would have, even leaving allegations about code theft unanswered.

I might have been unsure if you were running copyrighted code, but now I know for sure you stiffed a programmer and are trying to cover your ass after the fact.

As a professional consideration, I won't be using any of your services. Failing to pay an appropriate invoice for services rendered to you is a serious black mark for a company, particularly to people who depend on contract work to make a living.

Finally:

> Our agreement with the poster makes it clear that we own all work product produced pursuant to the agreement

I suspect that this is only true in the event that you completely paid the programmer. Failing to do so likely invalidated the copyright transfer, which is standard language to include in a contract.

I also suspect that the code you're currently running is not a clean rewrite, meaning that the next programmer based his code on that code and likely didn't remove literally every piece of it from the code base before starting.

This very easily could have left your company with liability regarding the code you're no longer using, because the formation of your current code base depended integrally on violating the copyright of the programmer you didn't pay.

I suspect you should just shut up and stop making a bigger deal of this in public, and that you should ask your lawyer point blank if the cost of fighting over the liability you might not have properly controlled will be cheaper than just paying the rest of the programmer's fee.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#70
Not that it's directly relevant to the claim, but 'work-for-hire' agreements do not directly to apply to most software.

In particular, you cannot use a work-for-hire agreement to cause on-the-fly copyright transfer as code is written, you have to include in your contract a requirement about a separate copyright transfer.

Here's a decent write-up I found: http://www.metrocorpcounsel.com/articles/9954/work-hire-doct...

There's a separate point here though - your contractor wrote the code which you claim not to be using, but he most likely also did a great deal of software design - data modelling, layouts, behavioral descriptions, navigation, etc. If you are using any of that, you are still using his work.

Legally speaking, even if he was as terrible a developer as you say, you are probably screwed for the money he was owed unless you had a lawyer write his contract with an eye toward not paying for poor work. That's just how contracting works.

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