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From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#11

Post by KhalPanda »

A backend PHP framework causing browser incompatibility issues. Eh?

Edit: To reply to the naysayers in one fell-swoop - unless CakePHP is identifying the browser from the request header and sending different templates/CSS accordingly (which sounds unlikely, and like a bad idea to me), there's no way for the framework to introduce cross-browser compatibility issues.

Obviously the developer could create issues in the CSS or templates directly, but that's nothing to do with the framework... which is what I was getting at.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#14

Post by bradfa »

How does airing even more dirty laundry in public around this help anyone involved?

Both sides need to seek professional (paid!) advice on how to handle this situation and then handle it in PRIVATE. Bitching about something that happened on the Internet is not productive and will only give the other side's lawyers things to use against you if a suit happens.

Someone needs to sue someone. Otherwise just shut up, both sides.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#15

Post by seren »

_delirium wrote: post #3
jasonkester wrote: post #2

I think you're going to have a hard time here trying to convince a developer community that a "refund" is something a client is entitled to in a work for hire situation. You ask a developer to do work for you, they do the requested work, and you pay them. If you don't like the work, you end the relationship. But you still have to pay them for their time. I don't envy the next few weeks for you guys, but you definitel…

> I think you're going to have a hard time here trying to convince a developer community that a "refund" is something a client is entitled to in a work for hire situation. Depends entirely on the contract. Many contracts include terms giving the client recourse in the case where unsatisfactory work product is delivered, especially if it's a pay-for-deliverable rather than pay-for-hours-worked contract. (But some don'…

> That post claimed that Pigeon.ly is using stolen code to run their product, while Pigeon.ly claims they are not using the code in their product.

Does it really makes a difference if the code is currently running or not? Let's say, hypothetically, the code was not production ready but used in an alpha version to pitch an investor ?

It is impossible to prove one way or another, but I wonder, if you could sue someone, on the basis that it "could have been used".

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#16

Post by ceejayoz »

konole wrote: post #5

> Everyone who evaluated the code said the same thing, to sum it up (in their professorial opinion) the framework was not utilized correctly which resulted in the numerous bugs and browser incompatibility issues. How using PHP framework may result in browser incompatibility issues? Whole processing happens in the server side for PHP, not in browser...

I believe Cake is like Rails in that it puts out JavaScript code automatically for AJAXing things.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#17

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

joshcrowder wrote: post #6

Requesting a refund is different from a charge-back via PayPal. Working with any contractor be it an agency or a freelancer there is always a risk you wont be happy. The correct way of dealing with it is to find an agreement you can both deal with. Not use shitty Paypal tactics to reverse the charge. If you go for dinner and don't enjoy the food, you do not pay, leave and then call Amex and tell them your card was st…

> Requesting a refund is different from a charge-back via PayPal.

Anytime Paypal's involved, the waters are so muddled who can say what happened? To even be entitled to a refund, the person has a limited amount of time to file a complaint.

If the complaint is filed, Paypal may do the chargeback all by itself, even if this isn't specifically what the complainant intended.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#18

Post by antr »

conjecTech wrote: post #4

Since both parties are in agreement as to what actions were taken, why don't you show us the contract so that we can determine who acted appropriately?

Leave that to lawyers. The HN audience is savvy, but I don't think most of us are capable of legally interpreting an agreement without taking a side on the matter first.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#19

Post by _delirium »

seren wrote: post #15
_delirium wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you're going to have a hard time here trying to convince a developer community that a "refund" is something a client is entitled to in a work for hire situation. Depends entirely on the contract. Many contracts include terms giving the client recourse in the case where unsatisfactory work product is delivered, especially if it's a pay-for-deliverable rather than pay-for-hours-worked contract. (But some don'…

> That post claimed that Pigeon.ly is using stolen code to run their product, while Pigeon.ly claims they are not using the code in their product. Does it really makes a difference if the code is currently running or not? Let's say, hypothetically, the code was not production ready but used in an alpha version to pitch an investor ? It is impossible to prove one way or another, but I wonder, if you could sue someone,…

It would make a pretty big difference to the legality of their product. If their product includes code they don't own the copyright to, that's a bigger problem than a payment dispute with a past contractor.
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