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Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

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Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#101

Post by korzun »

IgorPartola wrote: post #48
akumen wrote: post #40

A quick scan on Russian sources shows no confirmation of a large scale invasion taking place. EU rhetoric also quickly changed since this morning and suddenly nobody is using the word "invasion" anymore. Ukraine crying "wolf", again until confirmed.

So Russia is known for having a strong propaganda machine. Moreover, Russia openly admitting that it is invading a sovereign nation though it's Kremlin-controlled media outlets (aka almost all media outlets in Russia) would mean trouble. So by Occam's Razor, Putin is telling the media he controls to cover up as much of this as possible. The EU rhetoric is a bit more nuanced, but probably comes from a similar place: i…

Just FYI, IgorPartola is extremely biased.

> Ukraine has no propaganda because Ukraine doesn't have much of anything.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#102

Post by danmaz74 »

nokiaman wrote: post #6

Looks like propaganda. Didn't Ukrainian president Poroshenko say he had hard evidence that the rebels and Russia shot down fligth MH17? Where is it? All gone a bit quiet hasn't it? Every few days he makes new claims but never backs them up with evidence. Any Russian programmers want to comment? How does it feel for Russia to be constantly demonized? Even here on HackerNews, when was the last time there was any positi…

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28961080

http://aco.nato.int/new-satellite-imagery-exposes-russian-co...

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#103

Post by thenmar »

zorbo wrote: post #81
IgorPartola wrote: post #33

I am continually astounded by the amount of support Russia receives from HN commenters. Is it that the Russian propaganda so strong that it reaches all the way to the Bay area, or are there a lot of Russians on here? What I am wondering is when Russia will completely take over Ukraine and what will be the NATO position at that point? I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody…

I'm in a position where I'm mostly exposed to non-western information regarding the situation in Ukraine, since my girlfriend is Russian. It's funny to see the exact opposite story as the western media is giving. Stories about pro-russians being harassed by pro-western Urkainians and the government were (and are) abundant. From their point of view, a pro-russian government was illegitimately overthrown. General opini…

So would you disagree with the general sentiment in the west that most Russian media is state controlled and relatively unfree compared to most western media?

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#104

Post by falcolas »

explorigin wrote: post #52
peaton wrote: post #3

Wow, I guess this is what would have happened online during World War II if it happened in modern times. Interesting historic landmark as far as information dissemination during confrontations/wars.

No, it's not at all what happened when the Nazi's advanced in WWII. If you watch the Vice News reports, it seems that the people are ambivalent to who rules over them, they just want the fighting to stop. In contrast, in WWII, the Nazis were not much liked by the occupied peoples.

> it seems that the people are ambivalent to who rules over them

Based on my contacts in Ukrane (4 colleagues), no, they are not ambivalent. They don't want Russia in their country.

Hell, we've had to help one of those 4 re-locate due to the invasion.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#105

Post by jwr »

pimlottc wrote: post #73
IgorPartola wrote: post #33

I am continually astounded by the amount of support Russia receives from HN commenters. Is it that the Russian propaganda so strong that it reaches all the way to the Bay area, or are there a lot of Russians on here? What I am wondering is when Russia will completely take over Ukraine and what will be the NATO position at that point? I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody…

> I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody wants to start WWIII, but this has to be disturbing developments for countries like Poland, Romania, etc. Don't you mean that you have no delusions that NATO will engage in conflict? Otherwise you're saying you think they will.

I am Polish. It is extremely disturbing. What I find most appalling is that Western Europe seems to have learned nothing from our shared history. We already had crazy leaders invade small neighboring countries, and we tried to appease them without raising too much of a fuss, so as to preserve economic interests. This is how it begins.

Now — we start to see history repeat itself, and what do European countries do? France seems to be fine with continuing to sell warships to Russia. Germany is mostly worried about economy and what the lack of Russian gas will do to it. Great Britain seems to be mostly occupied with thinking about whether to leave the EU.

We don't necessarily need a full-blown conflict, but I'm of the opinion (that seems to be the majority opinion in Poland) that Europe should immediately impose serious sanctions and implement a plan to stop buying Russian oil&gas within, say, a year. Yes, it will tip economies into stagnation or even recession, but to hell with it: we should not be complacent and just watch as history repeats itself!

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#106

Post by lelifer »

acomjean wrote: post #44
3rd3 wrote: post #27

Am I the only one who feels uneasy about stuff like this? I can't quite figure out why.

Your not the only one. Its a strange feeling that Russia can do whatever it wants and there are no consequences. They seem a little out of control. They annexed Crimea. Nobody did anything. They shot down a civilian airliner (or supplied the missiles/training). No consequences. Send in caravans of "Humanitarian Aid" that Ukraine didn't ask for. Crickets.. Then they just get on their media and deny everything. Its har…

"can do whatever it wants" look at your own country.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#107

Post by korzun »

IgorPartola wrote: post #66
JacobEdelman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am disappointed by the fact that while their are several comments supporting Russia almost all of them have been down voted a ton. You shouldn't down vote people just because you disagree with them.

What bpodgursky said. Also, note how these downvoted comments typically include no sources, and are usually a one sentence attack on Ukraine, or a one sentence defense of Russia's actions.

Opposite to your 10 sentences attacking Russians and painting Ukraine as a saint via multiple comments.

IF you were Ukrainian you would not be defending it's government after they have been milking every citizen for their own purpose within the past 10 years.

So I'm confused by your agenda, but it's obvious you are here to post garbage that blindly fits your agenda.

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#108

Post by akumen »

akumen wrote: post #98
IgorPartola wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Russia is known for having a strong propaganda machine. Moreover, Russia openly admitting that it is invading a sovereign nation though it's Kremlin-controlled media outlets (aka almost all media outlets in Russia) would mean trouble. So by Occam's Razor, Putin is telling the media he controls to cover up as much of this as possible. The EU rhetoric is a bit more nuanced, but probably comes from a similar place: i…

Source bias is always an issue. I think we would all agree that western media doesn't have the best track record when it comes to "proof" either. Same goes for NATO imagery, I recall similar imagery as proof of WMDs in Iraq etc. The images currently being circulated were actually captured on captured on 21-23 August 2014, a week ago during Russian military exercises near the border. The interesting thing is that the…

Looks like somebody at ZH also knows how to use a compass.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-28/nato-releases-satel...

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#109

Post by IgorPartola »

zorbo wrote: post #81
IgorPartola wrote: post #33

I am continually astounded by the amount of support Russia receives from HN commenters. Is it that the Russian propaganda so strong that it reaches all the way to the Bay area, or are there a lot of Russians on here? What I am wondering is when Russia will completely take over Ukraine and what will be the NATO position at that point? I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody…

I'm in a position where I'm mostly exposed to non-western information regarding the situation in Ukraine, since my girlfriend is Russian. It's funny to see the exact opposite story as the western media is giving. Stories about pro-russians being harassed by pro-western Urkainians and the government were (and are) abundant. From their point of view, a pro-russian government was illegitimately overthrown. General opini…

I appreciate a reasoned response. However:

1. Propaganda: in Russia, the media is very tightly controlled by the Kremlin. This is not the case in the US and most Western countries. Russia can use propaganda easily, and it is in their interest. The stories come out of their media are suspiciously different from any other stories from anywhere else. Simplest explanation: they are using propaganda, or at least coloring stories for their benefit.

2. The Ukrainian government is a joke. It was a joke when Yanukovych was in power too. It will continue being a joke until Ukraine is left alone to figure its shit out. You cannot expect a country that's been independent for under 25 years to do things perfectly. For a great example of countries that are democratic, yet get stuff wrong all the time see most Western countries.

3. The Ukrainian government did not cause all of this. Putin has a motive to invade Ukraine (rebulding USSR as his legacy) and an opportunity: currently nobody will oppose him and he has the upper hand militarily. Do you think he is so easily offended that something the Ukrainian government said will cause him to do something like this?

Re: Live map of Russia advancing into Ukraine

#110

Post by bliker »

zorbo wrote: post #81
IgorPartola wrote: post #33

I am continually astounded by the amount of support Russia receives from HN commenters. Is it that the Russian propaganda so strong that it reaches all the way to the Bay area, or are there a lot of Russians on here? What I am wondering is when Russia will completely take over Ukraine and what will be the NATO position at that point? I have no delusions that NATO will not engage in any military conflict, since nobody…

I'm in a position where I'm mostly exposed to non-western information regarding the situation in Ukraine, since my girlfriend is Russian. It's funny to see the exact opposite story as the western media is giving. Stories about pro-russians being harassed by pro-western Urkainians and the government were (and are) abundant. From their point of view, a pro-russian government was illegitimately overthrown. General opini…

Well there are soldiers of one country invading other sovereign country. Is that not true?
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