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Pulling the Curtain on Airport Security [pdf]

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Re: Pulling the Curtain on Airport Security [pdf]

#101

Post by nhstanley »

Canada wrote: post #54
a_c_s wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt that a $5.60 fee has a significant effect on demand for $200-$500 plane tickets. If that were the case, one could argue that the overpriced food at the airport also kills people. As for your sources: The paper linked by Business Week doesn't say anything about the price of airport security deterring people, rather it is about the aggregate group that substituted driving for flying after 9/11, which…

Personally, I don't fly if I don't have to. The cost of flights has nothing to do with it. The way things are now, I feel threatened in an airport. Especially a US airport, though Canadian ones aren't much better. I feel a heightened possibility that my valuables be stolen from me. That it's done under the color of law makes it even worse than being in a rough neighborhood. Some may say this is unreasonable, but I kn…

Do you know they were stolen from by the TSA, or by baggage handlers? Getting rid of the TSA wouldn't solve the latter problem.

Re: Pulling the Curtain on Airport Security [pdf]

#102

Post by tehwebguy »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #74
tptacek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the THC thing could possibly work. I opt out at every checkpoint, and each time, they maximize body contact and then generate an input to those machines. Wouldn't it go off for anyone who had smoked up earlier in the day, or the preceding day? It seems like they'd be spending all their time doing drug searches. (Don't get me wrong: drug searches at TSA checkpoints are extremely alarming, because TSA has…

I've literally spent a night putting on a fireworks show, gotten up and flown the next day, and not set off the alarm. I've also at a different time been completely clean, set off the alarm for gunpowder (I could see the screen), and then had the TSA wave me through. They don't know, they don't care, they don't do anything. Their sole purpose is to make people more comfortable with invasive government overreach.

I set the hand wipe and scan machine off once. Had to go to additional screening, it was my hair product.

Re: Pulling the Curtain on Airport Security [pdf]

#103

Post by nhstanley »

sleeping_pills wrote: post #83
pmorici wrote: post #66

Typical. Government organizations think IT security means having strongly worded statements and reams of bureaucratic rules and procedures. If you look closely though the strong words often aren't backed by any meaningful action. In a government official's mind if the 50 page IT security document was filled out and is on file that means the system is secure. It's all a big joke really.

I don't think most of them would be that stupid. Just lazy. In a government official's mind, if the 50 page IT security document was filled out then he can't be held responsible when the shit hits the fan.

Fifty pages filled out means it is now someone else's job to read those pages and implement. His hands are clean.

Re: Pulling the Curtain on Airport Security [pdf]

#104

Post by pessimizer »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #98
glenra wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do suggest we scrap it all and go back to the 1950s. Let people walk right out to the gate to meet arrivals. Let people run through the airport right to the gate without having to stand in a line at all. Even the level of security we had before 9/11 was misguided and caused more deaths than it saved. Here's all we should do: leave security policy up to the airlines themselves. Then there won't be the sort of single…

> I do suggest we scrap it all and go back to the 1950s. Let people walk right out to the gate to meet arrivals. You could do this in the 90s. It still boggles my mind that someone thought it should be stamped out.

It's also a bit surprising that meeting people at the gate is thought of as some bizarre behavior that only happened in ancient antiquity. All of these restrictions, and all of these new bureaucracies are brand new, completely created and maintained over the administrations of only two presidents.

Re: Pulling the Curtain on Airport Security [pdf]

#105

Post by cushychicken »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #90
ubernostrum wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA has more than a bit of scope creep going on. In theory, all they're supposed to do is a basic administrative search to prevent weapons or explosives from being brought onto a plane. In practice, the perception in the public mind that they are a more general law-enforcement body allows them to easily perform other tasks on behalf of agencies that don't have the same general search powers. The classic example is se…

The TSA does not search in-bound people, and CBP does not search out-bound people, so this doesn't really make sense.

CBP does not ALWAYS search outbound people, but retains the right to do so (at least in the US).

Re: Pulling the Curtain on Airport Security [pdf]

#106

Post by tedunangst »

DanBC wrote: post #96
tedunangst wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is searching for cash the classic example or a one time example involving Ron Paul's cash courier, which then led to a rule change instructing TSA to ignore cash?

TSA claim they don't search for eg drugs; they claim to search for expsi es and incidentally find drugs. This is the classic mission creep example. There are people who hide drugs in jars of peanut butter. This shows up on TSA screens as a jar with different stuff in, which they claim to view as suspicious because it looks like explosive.

There seems to be some goal post creep as well. How many classic examples are there?

Re: Pulling the Curtain on Airport Security [pdf]

#107

Post by granos »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #90
ubernostrum wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TSA has more than a bit of scope creep going on. In theory, all they're supposed to do is a basic administrative search to prevent weapons or explosives from being brought onto a plane. In practice, the perception in the public mind that they are a more general law-enforcement body allows them to easily perform other tasks on behalf of agencies that don't have the same general search powers. The classic example is se…

The TSA does not search in-bound people, and CBP does not search out-bound people, so this doesn't really make sense.

You do get searched by TSA if you are coming from outside the country. In recent years I've flown in from Mexico, Spain, India and the Dominican Republic. For each flight, the boarding gate was blocked from general access and the only way to get in was to go through a TSA search. They only had metal detectors, but my bags were still searched. Had I been carrying a large sum of cash (or anything else that needs to be declared) they could have contacted CBP at my departure airport.

Re: Pulling the Curtain on Airport Security [pdf]

#108

Post by hawleyal »

stevefeinstein wrote: post #8

If this isn't the answer, and I'm not asserting it is or isn't. What is, and how do implement it. Or do you suggest if we scrap it all and go back to 1950's like airport security that the few incidents that are inevitable are an acceptable risk? I don't know the answer, but I'd like to have the conversation.

There aren't fewer problems now. We are paying for nothing.

Re: Pulling the Curtain on Airport Security [pdf]

#109

Post by gsnedders »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #78
shamwao wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a ridiculous idea I've always wondered about, but... why not just drop everything, and allow open carry? Maybe keep the cockpit doors. I find it impossible to imagine any security threat to a flight where the passengers are packing and willing to defend themselves. Doesn't this make flying exactly as dangerous as being in a crowd? For zero dollars?

You're overestimating the marksmanship/ability to use firearms of the average (untrained) person, especially when under extreme stress.

And in an environment where people may well be panicking and moving around, making a clear shot difficult, even if your markmanship is good.

Re: Pulling the Curtain on Airport Security [pdf]

#110

Post by coldpie »

nhstanley wrote: post #101
Canada wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I don't fly if I don't have to. The cost of flights has nothing to do with it. The way things are now, I feel threatened in an airport. Especially a US airport, though Canadian ones aren't much better. I feel a heightened possibility that my valuables be stolen from me. That it's done under the color of law makes it even worse than being in a rough neighborhood. Some may say this is unreasonable, but I kn…

Do you know they were stolen from by the TSA, or by baggage handlers? Getting rid of the TSA wouldn't solve the latter problem.

TSA theft happens all the time. They have the ability to take stuff from passengers basically with impunity. What are you doing to do, start a row in the security line?

http://rt.com/usa/tsa-stealing-from-travelers-358/

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