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On Saying No - The Power of Simply Answering, "No."

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Re: On Saying No - The Power of Simply Answering, "No."

#21

Post by caffeine »

bryarcanium wrote: post #9

The subtler point of this article is that a simple no is a good test of your authority- service personnel, students, people he had power over; they had to except his "no." Girlfriend? Not so much. The power in question isn't the added power of using the word- it's the way the word reveals the power dynamics at play. He didn't gain more authority by using the word; the word revealed to him his authority and its limits…

Surely you must see the Tao in all this?

Reject duality. "Yes" and "No" create each other. They are both to be used, in harmony.

This article is really about honesty. Eliminating posturing and the little face-saving nothings from "No" half-way empowered the author. But at the end, he found it was not enough. Now, he must find honesty in "Yes."

Re: On Saying No - The Power of Simply Answering, "No."

#22

Post by haberman »

maximilian wrote: post #19
haberman wrote: post #18

I think some of the article is compelling, but when he's talking about service personnel he just sounds like a jerk. A waiter who asks whether he wants fresh ground pepper is "attempting to dominate the transaction"? Taking care of you is a waiter's job .

When dealing with service personnel one can morph a simple "no." into a "No, thank you." Polite but similarly final.

Exactly, and not as disdainful of someone who is just trying to be friendly and do their job.

Re: On Saying No - The Power of Simply Answering, "No."

#23

Post by scott_s »

masklinn wrote: post #12
bryarcanium wrote: post #9

The subtler point of this article is that a simple no is a good test of your authority- service personnel, students, people he had power over; they had to except his "no." Girlfriend? Not so much. The power in question isn't the added power of using the word- it's the way the word reveals the power dynamics at play. He didn't gain more authority by using the word; the word revealed to him his authority and its limits…

> they had to except his "no." They didn't. They could have asked for explanations, justifications, clarifications. He might have given them or not, might have continued the conversation or not (as he notes he did with a student), but that doesn't mean they had to accept his "no" for an answer.

If you have the power to not clarify and walk away, they do.

Re: On Saying No - The Power of Simply Answering, "No."

#24

Post by pkulak »

masklinn wrote: post #12
bryarcanium wrote: post #9

The subtler point of this article is that a simple no is a good test of your authority- service personnel, students, people he had power over; they had to except his "no." Girlfriend? Not so much. The power in question isn't the added power of using the word- it's the way the word reveals the power dynamics at play. He didn't gain more authority by using the word; the word revealed to him his authority and its limits…

> they had to except his "no." They didn't. They could have asked for explanations, justifications, clarifications. He might have given them or not, might have continued the conversation or not (as he notes he did with a student), but that doesn't mean they had to accept his "no" for an answer.

Well, sure, no one _has_ to do anything if you take free will far enough.

Re: On Saying No - The Power of Simply Answering, "No."

#25

Post by scott_s »

haberman wrote: post #22
maximilian wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When dealing with service personnel one can morph a simple "no." into a "No, thank you." Polite but similarly final.

Exactly, and not as disdainful of someone who is just trying to be friendly and do their job.

I don't see anything disdainful or rude about just saying "No." even without a "thank you." It all depends on how you say it.

Re: On Saying No - The Power of Simply Answering, "No."

#26

Post by haberman »

scott_s wrote: post #25
haberman wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, and not as disdainful of someone who is just trying to be friendly and do their job.

I don't see anything disdainful or rude about just saying "No." even without a "thank you." It all depends on how you say it.

It doesn't have to be, but the attitude of the author is that he is standing up to someone who is trying to "dominate a transaction." With that mindset, "no" is bound to come off as rude.

Re: On Saying No - The Power of Simply Answering, "No."

#27

Post by DarrenMills »

riffer wrote: post #16

Also, try using "fine" as a way of consenting to something rather than "yes" It conveys the same certainty and closure as "no"

I've personally taken a dislike to using two phrases with people, "fine" and "whatever". Both of them, generally, have a negative connotation to them. Especially when talking to a girlfriend/significant other, it just feels crude.

Re: On Saying No - The Power of Simply Answering, "No."

#28

Post by TheSOB88 »

haberman wrote: post #18

I think some of the article is compelling, but when he's talking about service personnel he just sounds like a jerk. A waiter who asks whether he wants fresh ground pepper is "attempting to dominate the transaction"? Taking care of you is a waiter's job .

He was talking about the serviceguy trying to get him to buy more expensive service. I think if you just say "no" in a conversational tone, there's nothing impolite about it. You don't have to be an asshole to say "no".

Re: On Saying No - The Power of Simply Answering, "No."

#29

Post by DanielStraight »

PieSquared wrote: post #3

" But when he really did ask if he and a couple of buddies could have a few beers at my house, I just said no. No follow-up, no prevarication, no buddying up for a sympathy injection. " While I see the purpose of a clear 'No', in some cases, it just seems like it's rather jerkish even if said in a nice tone. How hard is it to say instead, "No, and that is final; my reason is such and such, just so that you know"? I k…

The problem with "No, because..." is that it leaves the question open, especially when the person saying "no" is trying to be especially polite. Suppose the father said, "No, I wouldn't be comfortable with that." Well, when he's not there, he can't be uncomfortable, so it's ok. Suppose he said, "No, it's illegal." Well, smoking is legal at a younger age, so that must be ok. Speeding is illegal so when the son sees the father speeding, he'll have to conclude that his father is being unfair since he breaks the law but expects his son to follow it.

"No" with a condition leaves the expectation that when the conditioned is changed, the answer will also change. "No" by itself is straightforward and can't lead to false expectations.

Re: On Saying No - The Power of Simply Answering, "No."

#30

Post by DanielStraight »

rotw wrote: post #17
PieSquared wrote: post #3

" But when he really did ask if he and a couple of buddies could have a few beers at my house, I just said no. No follow-up, no prevarication, no buddying up for a sympathy injection. " While I see the purpose of a clear 'No', in some cases, it just seems like it's rather jerkish even if said in a nice tone. How hard is it to say instead, "No, and that is final; my reason is such and such, just so that you know"? I k…

True. The guy who brought his kids up with a proper understanding of rhetoric definitely did a better educational job. The kids of Dr. No, however, will grow up being people who can't express themselves, and inevitably provoke conflict by being obstinate and seeing themselves mostly in the right because of their authority. They will not value reason.

I might be inclined to think that someone who can't give a straight answer is going to have trouble expressing himself.
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