Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Edward Snowden: The Untold Story

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 232 posts

Re: Edward Snowden: The Untold Story

#91

Post by tptacek »

anon1385 wrote: post #84
tptacek wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really believe that France, China, and Israel haven't owned up US routers? Should we declare war on them?

That is some very weak whataboutery. If there was a civil war going on in the US and disrupting the internet was likely to lead to loss of life then we might have a comparable situation. That isn't the situation though. I am making a note of the fact that you view the Chinese government as a good barometer of morality in readiness for the next time you bring up their human rights record.

What a strange comment. You appear to believe that you can sum up the human rights characteristics of entire countries by the answer to a single question about routers.

Here's a characteristic of Chinese human rights that isn't captured by that question: it is the official policy of China that the police can convict and sentence its citizens to a year of labor camp ("reeducation through labor") without a trial. I find that characteristic more important in assessing Chinese civil liberties than the fact that they have obviously owned up a bunch of our routers.

Re: Edward Snowden: The Untold Story

#92

Post by cyorir »

yardie wrote: post #69
nabla9 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NSA started to move towards "two-man rule" system where system administrators work in pairs when accessing servers with highly classified information only after Snowden leaks. When you know that Russia and China have good track record of long running human intelligence operations in the US, this looks like really gigantic security lapse. They are not stupid and they must have been discussing it. There must have been…

> The cost of setting up good HUMINT must be fraction of the cost of the NSA infrastructure. Considering the fact that the US was completely caught off guard by the scope and effectiveness of ISIS I have to question the effectiveness of SIGINT programs like the NSA. I have to assume honestly that these programs outlandish budgets are not for tracking terrorists but to control the domestic populace.

>Considering the fact that the US was completely caught off guard by the scope and effectiveness of ISIS I have to question the effectiveness of SIGINT programs like the NSA. I have to assume honestly that these programs outlandish budgets are not for tracking terrorists but to control the domestic populace.

I must disagree with this interpretation. I think that only the American public and (some) American media were caught off guard by ISIS. However, the warning signs about ISIS and speculation about the impact of instability in Syria go back a while, for example to early 2013. It would have been difficult to determine the exact sequence of events (in contrast, Lebanon has been more stable than some would have anticipated), but the expansion of ISIS operations is not so much of a surprise given 1) stated goal of ISIS to operate beyond Syria; 2) rising political tensions in Iraq encouraged by Maliki's disregard of opposition; 3) past actions of local Sunni militias and leaders, etc.

Maybe it looks like the US government was caught off guard, but I suspect that is not the case. I think US intelligence must have considered instability spreading out of Syria, and modeled a number of scenarios off of that. I think it is likely that the US gov. has not been so quick to respond because it realizes 1) there is little support in America for further involvement with Iraq; 2) there is limited support in the region for US involvement; 3) Maliki's government has leaned towards Iran, so the US may consider the ability to sustain American influence in Iraq limited.

In short I view this as a matter more of limited policy options than a matter of failed intelligence. I also think the more troublesome matter for intelligence is the Kurdish situation, since it is one thing to predict what ISIS will try to do and another to predict what will happen with the Kurdish autonomous region as a result.

Re: Edward Snowden: The Untold Story

#93

Post by [deleted] »

anon1385 wrote: post #83
drez wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have no problem with the NSA spying on foreign communications or disrupting them. After all, that's their job. What else would we use the NSA for? Really? You don't have an issue with a foreign intelligence agency disrupting core infrastructure for a nation in the midst of a civil war? Especially against a nation we are not even at war with? What if the Chinese (or anyone else) did something similar? Would that n…

It's just the usual old American Exceptionalism. They believe they have the 'God given' right to disrupt the economies of other countries, destroy infrastructure, assassinate civilians, fix elections and fund military coups. The only reason ever given is 'Might is Right'. To be an American patriot is to be a psychopath.

[deleted]

Re: Edward Snowden: The Untold Story

#94

Post by scrollaway »

slg wrote: post #79
adityab wrote: post #18

Two key 'new' things from this article, that were previously unknown: 1. The NSA exploited the firmware of a Syrian core internet router, and bricked it by mistake. This was an "oh shit" moment (sic). So in it's eagerness to scoop up all digital communications, it killed the majormost way for citizens to communicate while in the midst of a civil war. Great. 2. There is a project called "MonsterMind", which 100% autom…

It is in revealing things like this that make me question Snowden. While both points are interesting and maybe a little troubling, they are certainly not whistleblowing in the name of protecting the rights of American citizens. He has moved from simply exposing the breadth of the domestic spying apparatus to exposing the tactics the United States uses in legitimate espionage operations. Isn't trying to compromise the…

> Isn't trying to compromise the communication network of a country like Syria the exact thing the NSA is supposed to be doing?

What is wrong with you; what the hell do you have against Syria? What if this was France? The UK? Germany?

This was a mistake that happened while "attempting to bug Syria". Knowing the NSA, they bug almost every country out there — so yes, this could have happened to any of the ones I've listed.

Internet is a public service, one as essential as water and electricity. How do you call a country that disrupts another country's public services? In my book, I call it an act of war.

So you tell me, slg, is it the NSA's job to randomly decide to declare war against other countries?

Re: Edward Snowden: The Untold Story

#95

Post by jackbravo »

slg wrote: post #79
adityab wrote: post #18

Two key 'new' things from this article, that were previously unknown: 1. The NSA exploited the firmware of a Syrian core internet router, and bricked it by mistake. This was an "oh shit" moment (sic). So in it's eagerness to scoop up all digital communications, it killed the majormost way for citizens to communicate while in the midst of a civil war. Great. 2. There is a project called "MonsterMind", which 100% autom…

It is in revealing things like this that make me question Snowden. While both points are interesting and maybe a little troubling, they are certainly not whistleblowing in the name of protecting the rights of American citizens. He has moved from simply exposing the breadth of the domestic spying apparatus to exposing the tactics the United States uses in legitimate espionage operations. Isn't trying to compromise the…

There are good replies to this question in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8173019

I don't think spying and disrupting communications on a country you are not at war at, and that is going through a civil war (putting the lives of innocent people on the edge), is the type of things the NSA should be doing.

Re: Edward Snowden: The Untold Story

#96

Post by ch4s3 »

purephase wrote: post #71
ch4s3 wrote: post #25

"Programs like this had existed for decades, but MonsterMind software would add a unique new capability: Instead of simply detecting and killing the malware at the point of entry, MonsterMind would automatically fire back, with no human involvement. That's a problem, Snowden says, because the initial attacks are often routed through computers in innocent third countries. “These attacks can be spoofed,” he says. “You…

It's fucking crazy. It means that the US could instigate either a "cyber-war" or a real war between two separate nations with no one being the wiser. Truly terrifying, and probably the largest revelation in the article. This is was the major news outlets should be covering, right now.

Yeah, I'm surprised this didn't lead in the article.

Re: Edward Snowden: The Untold Story

#97

Post by nitrogen »

tptacek wrote: post #91
anon1385 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is some very weak whataboutery. If there was a civil war going on in the US and disrupting the internet was likely to lead to loss of life then we might have a comparable situation. That isn't the situation though. I am making a note of the fact that you view the Chinese government as a good barometer of morality in readiness for the next time you bring up their human rights record.

What a strange comment. You appear to believe that you can sum up the human rights characteristics of entire countries by the answer to a single question about routers. Here's a characteristic of Chinese human rights that isn't captured by that question: it is the official policy of China that the police can convict and sentence its citizens to a year of labor camp ("reeducation through labor") without a trial. I fin…

International politics' favorite excuse for everything comes straight from the grade school playground: "He started it!" We ought to do better.

Re: Edward Snowden: The Untold Story

#98

Post by FLUX-YOU »

jobu wrote: post #54
adityab wrote: post #18

Two key 'new' things from this article, that were previously unknown: 1. The NSA exploited the firmware of a Syrian core internet router, and bricked it by mistake. This was an "oh shit" moment (sic). So in it's eagerness to scoop up all digital communications, it killed the majormost way for citizens to communicate while in the midst of a civil war. Great. 2. There is a project called "MonsterMind", which 100% autom…

Another interesting item I hadn't heard before is that Snowden tried to leave clues as to which files he copied, and which files he looked at but didn't take: But he believes the NSA's audit missed those clues and simply reported the total number of documents he touched—1.7 million. (Snowden says he actually took far fewer.) “I figured they would have a hard time,” he says. “I didn't figure they would be completely i…

When the article chose to put quotes around "touched", my thought was that Snowden was being clever and running a script that ran 'touch $file' for everything he had stolen. That's what I'm going to choose to believe, anyways. :)

Re: Edward Snowden: The Untold Story

#99

Post by nitrogen »

chatmasta wrote: post #90
TuringTest wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US didn't declare war on Syria. > I have no problem with the NSA spying on foreign communications or disrupting them. Should the rest of countries just assume that the US is a permanent military enemy? You don't seem to have a problem with treating them as such.

Countries should assume that other countries are spying on them, military enemy or not. This is how the world has worked for the past 70 years, and it's not going to change.

Can you provide evidence for your final sentence?

Re: Edward Snowden: The Untold Story

#100

Post by wldcordeiro »

Noctem wrote: post #65
a3n wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AdBlock Edge. When I first installed it, my motivation was partly to fuck with The Man. But good lord what a great web experience I've had since then. It's almost a completely different web, with a completely different purpose, to inform me rather than to sell me.

I don't understand Adblock Edge. Why use a fork of an old version of Adblock Plus with "acceptable ads" disabled instead of just disabling them yourself in the original (and continuously updated) product? Are there any changes besides the preconfigured disabling of Adblock's whitelist?

Because obviously Adblock Plus sold out and is untrustworthy now. /s I use Adblock Plus, and I have the acceptable ads enabled and have no complaints.
Post reply on HN