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Law Students Fend Off a Patent Troll

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Re: Law Students Fend Off a Patent Troll

#51

Post by toong »

keithpeter wrote: post #50
emptywindow wrote: post #12

THESE PEOPLE DESERVE CREDIT: - Prof. Jonathan Askin - @jaskin - runs the clinic, and trusted us to try this experiment. - Maegan Fuller - @mafuller21 - did the lion's share of research and writing. Brilliant and dedicated student. She just took the bar exam. - Jorge Torres - @jorgemtorres - Guy who actually knows patent litigation. Too bad he dropped out of law to be a VC. Pitch him :-)

The judge crossed out the 'with' and wrote in 'without' prejudice on the note. Does that mean that if the troll tries this on with someone else, this case can't be cited? Just wondering.

I guess not: the troll dropped the case, there was no judicial decision, so there is nothing to cite ?

Re: Law Students Fend Off a Patent Troll

#52

Post by lutusp »

keithpeter wrote: post #50
emptywindow wrote: post #12

THESE PEOPLE DESERVE CREDIT: - Prof. Jonathan Askin - @jaskin - runs the clinic, and trusted us to try this experiment. - Maegan Fuller - @mafuller21 - did the lion's share of research and writing. Brilliant and dedicated student. She just took the bar exam. - Jorge Torres - @jorgemtorres - Guy who actually knows patent litigation. Too bad he dropped out of law to be a VC. Pitch him :-)

The judge crossed out the 'with' and wrote in 'without' prejudice on the note. Does that mean that if the troll tries this on with someone else, this case can't be cited? Just wondering.

No, in general the with/without prejudice language in legal rulings means that a reshaped and resubmitted case on the same issues wouldn't/would be welcomed back for another hearing.

Re: Law Students Fend Off a Patent Troll

#53

Post by vertex-four »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #44

I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls. I would donate to that organization. I've seen a lot of horseshit patents asserted against start-ups. If there was an organization that followed the troll around and offered defense services against all of their defendants, it would make trolling a lot harder, and might reduce the numbers of the…

> I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls.

Why should there be? Why allow VCs and other investors to externalise the costs of doing business, as arbitrary as those costs might be?

Re: Law Students Fend Off a Patent Troll

#54

Post by mseebach »

vertex-four wrote: post #53
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #44

I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls. I would donate to that organization. I've seen a lot of horseshit patents asserted against start-ups. If there was an organization that followed the troll around and offered defense services against all of their defendants, it would make trolling a lot harder, and might reduce the numbers of the…

> I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls. Why should there be? Why allow VCs and other investors to externalise the costs of doing business, as arbitrary as those costs might be?

That's not what "externalise" means. When a cost is externalised, it's taken on involuntarily by society at large. Since contributing to this organisation would be voluntary, that's clearly not what happens.

VCs and investors aren't creating the cost (so they can't externalise it), patent trolls are, and they do externalise it. Everybody is worse off when a startup (regardless of VCs and other investors) sinks hours into dealing with this, if they pay off the troll, and even worse off yet if the startup folds and a potentially valuable product isn't taken to market. That is an externality.

Also, there's a clear business case for VCs in contributing to a credible attempt at discouraging patent trolls at large, so it's quite likely that they'd donate to such an organisation - thus paying off a large part of the externality dumped onto society by the trolls.

Re: Law Students Fend Off a Patent Troll

#55

Post by teachingaway »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #44

I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls. I would donate to that organization. I've seen a lot of horseshit patents asserted against start-ups. If there was an organization that followed the troll around and offered defense services against all of their defendants, it would make trolling a lot harder, and might reduce the numbers of the…

>> I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls.

Part of the problem is making it scale. It takes a lot of man-hours to defend a patent litigation case. Its certainly possible to set up such a non-profit... its just difficult. We're working on it!

Re: Law Students Fend Off a Patent Troll

#56

Post by vertex-four »

mseebach wrote: post #54
vertex-four wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls. Why should there be? Why allow VCs and other investors to externalise the costs of doing business, as arbitrary as those costs might be?

That's not what "externalise" means. When a cost is externalised, it's taken on involuntarily by society at large. Since contributing to this organisation would be voluntary, that's clearly not what happens. VCs and investors aren't creating the cost (so they can't externalise it), patent trolls are, and they do externalise it. Everybody is worse off when a startup (regardless of VCs and other investors) sinks hours…

How far do we go down this road? What else should we be donating for businesses to do? Should we be donating their electricity costs, healthcare costs, should we be donating our time as volunteers for them to run?

If investors want to join together to create such an organisation, let them, but (1) it really shouldn't be a non-profit (its entire purpose is to act as a legal arm for for-profit business), and (2) asking for donations from the public to keep it running is utterly ridiculous.

Re: Law Students Fend Off a Patent Troll

#58

Post by rayiner »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #44

I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls. I would donate to that organization. I've seen a lot of horseshit patents asserted against start-ups. If there was an organization that followed the troll around and offered defense services against all of their defendants, it would make trolling a lot harder, and might reduce the numbers of the…

> I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls. I would donate to that organization.

I'm sympathetic to the plight of startups having to deal with the trolliest of trolls, but give me a break. There are so many worthier avenues for pro-bono legal work than helping out for-profit companies.

Re: Law Students Fend Off a Patent Troll

#59

Post by teachingaway »

rayiner wrote: post #58
TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #44

I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls. I would donate to that organization. I've seen a lot of horseshit patents asserted against start-ups. If there was an organization that followed the troll around and offered defense services against all of their defendants, it would make trolling a lot harder, and might reduce the numbers of the…

> I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls. I would donate to that organization. I'm sympathetic to the plight of startups having to deal with the trolliest of trolls, but give me a break. There are so many worthier avenues for pro-bono legal work than helping out for-profit companies.

>> There are so many worthier avenues for pro-bono legal work than helping out for-profit companies.

I have a handful of students who want to be patent lawyers. Should I make them work on death penalty or civil rights cases?

Re: Law Students Fend Off a Patent Troll

#60

Post by [deleted] »

teachingaway wrote: post #59
rayiner wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm surprised there isn't an EFF-like non-profit that provides pro-bono patent defense to start-ups, against patent trolls. I would donate to that organization. I'm sympathetic to the plight of startups having to deal with the trolliest of trolls, but give me a break. There are so many worthier avenues for pro-bono legal work than helping out for-profit companies.

>> There are so many worthier avenues for pro-bono legal work than helping out for-profit companies. I have a handful of students who want to be patent lawyers. Should I make them work on death penalty or civil rights cases?

[deleted]
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