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The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

nytimes.com

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Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#131

Post by JoeAltmaier »

crdoconnor wrote: post #122
zo1 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would never happen. People in certain countries get way too many free things and benefits, and are used to much higher standards of living. They'd be up in arms every time they saw an "immigrant" using it, or if an immigrant reduces the value of labor. It's really unfortunate because the only reason most people are against immigration, deep down, is that they fear they will be usurped by cheap labor. And that is only…

>It's really unfortunate because the only reason most people are against immigration, deep down, is that they fear they will be usurped by cheap labor. There's many good reasons to be against immigration apart from that: 1) It lets companies play third world workers off against first world workers. We know that they tell the first world workers to shape up (i.e. work overtime; accept abuse & wage theft) or have their…

If countries were people, then 2) would matter. As it is, real folks pay to have their children succeed. I would guess that many aren't as interested in Where (home or abroad) as When. So its not all bad or wrong.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#132

Post by gaadd33 »

wombatpm wrote: post #63
tdicola wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the advantage of this system over the modern railway system? Trains can go faster, don't have to stop for traffic, and can carry far more goods than trucks.

Amazingly, people live where rail is not an option. The interstate system offers more possibilities than rail. Rail also does not deliver to your door.

What parts of the country don't have rail as an option? Pretty much the entire US is covered in rail, especially around population centers since that's why many developed there in the first place.

Most people don't get tractor trailer deliveries to their door so a driverless truck wouldn't have an advantage there.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#133

Post by thetrumanshow »

rdtsc wrote: post #90
x0x0 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's not like trucking is a good job. For that princely (!!!) $41k / year, you are often away from home. I'd bet you don't get comped for all the meals you eat on the road either, so there goes a bunch of money spent eating out, even if it is just at truck stop diners. If you have a family, and and your partner has a job -- as he or she must, given that shit salary -- knock $4-$10k/year off for daycare as well. I…

But then again it is rather interdependent. Why would they want to pay more if they get enough people knocking on their door. In other words for everyone saying "hell no" there is another that say "ok, i have no choice, i'll take it" well the business moves on. I have also heard some East Europeans (Polish for ex) drivers come here (not sure on what kind of visa) and they are willing to work for much less, then send…

Concur (with anecdotal data from observation); Tons of Eastern European drivers now hauling through the heartland. I bet it pays better than being a software developer back home.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#134

Post by JoeAltmaier »

gaadd33 wrote: post #132
wombatpm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazingly, people live where rail is not an option. The interstate system offers more possibilities than rail. Rail also does not deliver to your door.

What parts of the country don't have rail as an option? Pretty much the entire US is covered in rail, especially around population centers since that's why many developed there in the first place. Most people don't get tractor trailer deliveries to their door so a driverless truck wouldn't have an advantage there.

That's pretty much a tautology - cities exist because trains went there. I live in a state covered with extinct towns, because the tracks went another way back in the day.

But sadly those tracks are bicycle trails or even roads now. Eminent domain space is problematical; rails always go interesting places; tracks have largely disappeared from the landscape by having their route repurposed.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#135

Post by 2close4comfort »

Margins are VERY tight in transportation. In a solid company most of this should be going to pay drivers, and in decent companies it does they can make a pretty decent paycheck (none of that per mile crap) BUT with licensing points and experience being the biggest roadblocks getting decent drivers. Plus how many kids are growing up to be truck drivers these days... not many

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#136

Post by LargeWu »

2close4comfort wrote: post #135

Margins are VERY tight in transportation. In a solid company most of this should be going to pay drivers, and in decent companies it does they can make a pretty decent paycheck (none of that per mile crap) BUT with licensing points and experience being the biggest roadblocks getting decent drivers. Plus how many kids are growing up to be truck drivers these days... not many

Then trucking companies can maintain their margins by charging more to haul goods. If there really is excess demand, then the market should be able to absorb price increases.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#137

Post by coldtea »

_yosefk wrote: post #121
crdoconnor wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is classic agency risk, where the incentives are not aligned Paying by the mile is even worse. How much incentive does the company have to make unloading and loading more efficient when they get it for free?

If drivers spend much time loading and unloading, and not getting paid, the amount paid per mile required to attract drivers will rise.

In the perfect world of the auto-correcting market.

In real life, in the case of coal miners and their "dead work" (necessary work that wasn't getting paid), it took bloody strikes and fights to get those rises, the amounts paid weren't automatically upgraded.

The "money required to attract X workers" only plays a role when those X workers are not destitute and starving to begin with. If they are, and the company can pay them less and still have a huge profit from their work, it'll do that.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#138

Post by keithpeter »

tombrossman wrote: post #95
twothamendment wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You started down the right road. Much of their pay has to do with how they are paid. There are trucking companies that don't pay drivers to fuel the truck. Do you know how long that takes? It isn't like it is an optional task - that truck won't move without fuel. I know a driver who spends 2-6 hours waiting to be unloaded. He doesn't get paid for that time but isn't free to leave the truck because when the loading do…

The issue is that most drivers incorrectly assume they are in the weakest position for any given scenario. They absorb delays as if it were their own fault and falsify logs to compensate. Many drivers even absorbed the reimbursable toll costs on a route because they couldn't match the ticket times to their falsified logs. They are afraid to log as 'on duty not driving', which is how they legally should be doing it. S…

I gather from colleagues that it can be quite a lonely job as well (UK). Interesting write up.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#139

Post by the_ancient »

_yosefk wrote: post #121
crdoconnor wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is classic agency risk, where the incentives are not aligned Paying by the mile is even worse. How much incentive does the company have to make unloading and loading more efficient when they get it for free?

If drivers spend much time loading and unloading, and not getting paid, the amount paid per mile required to attract drivers will rise.

In theory yes,.,, almost 100 years of history says no this is not the case

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#140

Post by the_ancient »

anifow wrote: post #117
the_ancient wrote: post #21

It is not a matter of paying "more" but changing how they pay Most Truckers are paid by the mile... So if your sitting in traffic no pay (next time your stopped in traffic look around, how many semi's are sitting with you, most of those drivers are doing it for free) Then there is load and unload time, which for some companies is non-paid, other is a nominal flat rate of like $35 that could take up hours of your day.…

I disagree. An hourly wage is a very special payment system which requires some kind of foreman to be sustainable. Otherwise, the labour industry tends to drift towards inefficiencies that allow them to claim money for less work. This is classic agency risk, where the incentives are not aligned, and heading down this path often entails major bureaucracies to try and keep everyone honest (like time clocks and punch ca…

there are alot of factors here

1. Most companies use what is called "Book Miles" for payment and these books I believe were published in the 1940's or something, because most companies "Book Miles" are vastly different than the actual miles driven

2. "Foreman" problem can be solved with Technology, the DOT is planning on requiring all electronic logs in the near future, like 2015 I believe, most trucking outfits already have realtime GPS monitoring of their trucks, you can monitor these employees in a far more accurate manner than one can monitor factory workers.

3. Most company truckers do not have a choice of where they fuel, this is planned as part of the trip, and they are provided a fleet card that is only accepted at a chain the company has a contract with.

this is just a start but I think you believe truckers have more freedom then they do in reality. The technology and logistics that goes in to trucking does not allow for any independent thought, they are given a route, with preplanned fuel and rest stops, if they deviate from this route they must explain why (i.e mechanical failure, stopped by police, etc)

While they may not have a human foreman monitoring their time clock, they have electronic foreman's and government regulators acting as foreman's

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