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Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

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Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#201

Post by Alupis »

sheetjs wrote: post #83
jowiar wrote: post #26

> I like the founders - they are good guys. No. They're not. You don't get to screw around with other people's lives and continue to possess the title of "good guy". If they were good guys, you would be receiving tens of thousands of dollars for your difficulties, and such would have enough of a runway on that such that you wouldn't need to ask us for advice. Please do us all a favor and let us know who they are beyo…

> Please do us all a favor and let us know who they are beyond "a YC startup" so that none of us find ourselves in your shoes. Two other reasons for considering revealing the name: 1) a casual bystander might see this and conclude that all YC companies behave in this way, which hurts the other companies. 2) PG and other partners at YC read HN, and there's a good chance that action can be taken if they know who is inv…

I assume you are in California.

California has At-Will employment -- so they can hire and fire you for any reason whenever they want. "You weren't a good fit", "You didn't think Big enough", "You didn't produce enough", etc etc etc.

Coming on here and ranting and trying to bring some action against the startup is not a good way to handle this. You feel wronged -- I'm sure the founders feel it was a good business decision.

Sorry this happened to you... but Startups are very volatile. It could have been worse.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#202

Post by Alupis »

shampine wrote: post #187
jowiar wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They withdrew an offer of employment. Doing this without compensation is ABSOLUTELY doing something wrong. Maybe not necessarily tortious, but certainly unethical and indicative of someone who should not be trusted in a business relationship. The YC company made a mistake and is sticking someone else with the bill. FWIW, There's a certain amount of "foreigners are expendable" mindset that seems to exist in the Amer…

I had an offer withdrawn the day before I was supposed to get on a plane to move myself cross country. I had quit my job, broken my lease, etc. The company paid me a 6 week severance, even though I never worked a minute for them, just to compensate me for what I had given up.

That was a very nice company. They were in no way obligated to do any of that. You chose to break your lease on a gamble that things would work out for you... obviously they didn't... that's just how it is.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#203

Post by guybrushT »

jowiar wrote: post #176
projectramo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to agree with "JasonFruit" here. The company has a much rosier picture of themselves than you do (and who is to say which one is right?). Think of possible mitigating circumstances, first duty to investors, what's right for the company, we made a mistake, etc etc and who knows what else. You don't want to make enemies, have them hit back in public, etc. This is not about what is "just" but what is efficien…

Right now this company has set a standard such that I will refuse to work for any YC-backed startup without serious contractual protection.

My experience (and this discussion) tells me that you should refuse to work for any company without serious contractual protection. Startup or large. YC or non-YC. Its just sensible.

I have found a new appreciation for things I used to consider bureaucratic at a large company (I am looking at you - HR department at a large company).

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#204

Post by michaelochurch »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #183
michaelochurch wrote: post #72

I like the founders - they are good guys. No, they're not. "Good guys" don't fire someone without a severance after 2 weeks for no reason, especially not after you've put your reputation on the line as you have. I let all job offers go (I had a few good ones) Try to get those offers back. Explain what happened. If there's another solid option you can take, then you don't need to worry. Try to get a month or two of se…

Worst YC investment ever? We took $20k investment, hired someone for one week and then fired them, got the $20k sued right out of us.

If personal cash flow isn't an issue for him, he could forgo cash severance in exchange for some equity, or strike a deal with an AoI (Agreement of Introduction) which means they agree to introduce him on positive terms to all future business contacts.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#205

Post by jowiar »

Alupis wrote: post #201
sheetjs wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please do us all a favor and let us know who they are beyond "a YC startup" so that none of us find ourselves in your shoes. Two other reasons for considering revealing the name: 1) a casual bystander might see this and conclude that all YC companies behave in this way, which hurts the other companies. 2) PG and other partners at YC read HN, and there's a good chance that action can be taken if they know who is inv…

I assume you are in California. California has At-Will employment -- so they can hire and fire you for any reason whenever they want. "You weren't a good fit", "You didn't think Big enough", "You didn't produce enough", etc etc etc. Coming on here and ranting and trying to bring some action against the startup is not a good way to handle this. You feel wronged -- I'm sure the founders feel it was a good business deci…

> they can hire and fire you for any reason whenever they want

Legally? Sure.

Ethically? No.

> I'm sure the founders feel it was a good business decision.

The next founders who contemplate pulling a cowardly stunt like this shouldn't feel it to be a good business decision.

As it stands, this reflects terribly YC and its startups as a whole.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#206

Post by enraged_camel »

yaur wrote: post #127
enraged_camel wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could he send a private email to PG and partners at YC? Not as a complaint but more like, "hey, just a heads up, this just happened at one of the companies you guys sponsored." I don't know anything about investing in startups but common sense would suggest that this would raise some red flags.

I would talk to a lawyer before doing this... see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the OP is in a foreign country and his work arrangement was one of remote work. So how would US tort law be enforced?

(That is not to suggest that talking to a lawyer first in these types of matters is a bad idea, of course.)

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#207

Post by jbarmash »

I am surprised nobody mentioned the YC Founder Code of Ethics from earlier this year.

   http://www.ycombinator.com/ethics/
I'd argue these four bullet points are relevant:

-- Treating co-founders and employees with fairness and respect.

-- Not behaving in a way that damages the reputation of his/her company or of YC.

-- Keeping your word, including honoring handshake deals.

-- Generally behaving in an upstanding way.

The OP made a serious accusation against a YC company. I assume YC can pretty easily figure out which company this is. I would expect that YC would investigate and take action if warranted.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#208

Post by [deleted] »

yaur wrote: post #194
davelnewton wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this applies.

Assuming that the OP has a reasonably standard employment agreement, he may well be breaking it by contacting their investors (there is the tort). Assuming that he doesn't want the job back, why would he contact them other than to disrupt the relationship between YC and his former employer? IANAL, but the basic elements seem like they are there and I wouldn't even consider doing something like this without getting le…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#209

Post by patio11 »

reinhardt wrote: post #196
patio11 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If somebody for some reason managed to convince me to come onboard as an employee, and I was asked nicely to leave after two weeks, I would begin the conversation with "That is unfortunate and unexpected, as I was looking forward to working with you guys. We're all businessmen here, so we know that there are certain reasonable expectations which one has with regards to employment offers. I shouldn't be telling you an…

Good luck convincing them to shell out 60K for two weeks. If they could afford it, they'd probably could afford throwing 30K more and keeping him for a year.

In Japan we have a distinction between what we say on the outside and what we think on the inside.

Outside: "You can't afford $60k? Oh, you're smart guys, I'm sure you can figure it out if it is a priority for you."

Inside: "Horsepuckey, YC company, cry me more tears about your inability to find tens of thousands of dollars when you're a mortal lock on a seed round and presumably on the glide path to an A."

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#210

Post by fnbr »

michaelochurch wrote: post #160
fnbr wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly advise against suing, however. It certainly sounds like you have a case (although IANAL), but it would damage your reputation[1]. Do document everything though, it's great to have options. [1] I know this is BS, but it's reality. Your reputation shouldn't be affected with your response to unethical former employers, but as someone entering a new community (i.e. bay area startups), you don't want to m…

If he can get one of this other job offers back on terms that are acceptable, he almost certainly shouldn't sue. Lawsuits take a long time and are incredibly draining. It's even more of a liability to be suing someone, while starting a new job. It's hard to serve those two masters at the same time. In fact, if the offers are unaffected, he doesn't have much of a case because there aren't damages, at least not from th…

I agree 100%. You make a good point regarding suing for detrimental reliance.

Also, side note: I really enjoy your writing and read all of your blog posts. Keep it up.

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