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Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

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Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#101

Post by spinlock »

danielweber wrote: post #50
jvagner wrote: post #30

I've been a CTO/CEO and have hired many people over time. Some of this has already been said, but: 1. Those jobs may still be open, reasonable people wouldn't hold taking another job against you. Work is work, and those who step back into discussion with you will show you a reasonableness that you will value more than before. 2. Situations like this is why sign-ing bonuses were invented. If you're COO of anything, yo…

This might be a derail, but what is the normal procedure by which one negotiates for a signing bonus or a severance package? Some sample verbiage would be nice.

Employee #1 isn't going to get a signing bonus at a startup. What you should get is equity. Then, you need to negotiate an exceleration clause if you are dismissed without cause. Basically, you should vest a slug of stock immediately upon being fired.

But, the only real answer to this question is to talk to a lawyer. And, don't be afraid to negotiate aggressively. After all, this is your first chance to show your new bosses that you're a tough negotiator. Be fair but never be a pushover.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#102

Post by jowiar »

georgespencer wrote: post #91
sheetjs wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please do us all a favor and let us know who they are beyond "a YC startup" so that none of us find ourselves in your shoes. Two other reasons for considering revealing the name: 1) a casual bystander might see this and conclude that all YC companies behave in this way, which hurts the other companies. 2) PG and other partners at YC read HN, and there's a good chance that action can be taken if they know who is inv…

"action can be taken" Come on. They didn't do anything wrong. They withdrew an offer of employment. 1. It could be performance related, and they just don't want to tell OP, 2. They realised quickly -- shock horror, things change quickly in startups -- that actually they don't need X guy they need Y guy. These things happen. In situations like this you can fire well: give explicit reasons, make sure the person knows y…

> They withdrew an offer of employment.

Doing this without compensation is ABSOLUTELY doing something wrong. Maybe not necessarily tortious, but certainly unethical and indicative of someone who should not be trusted in a business relationship. The YC company made a mistake and is sticking someone else with the bill.

FWIW, There's a certain amount of "foreigners are expendable" mindset that seems to exist in the American tech sphere that might factor into this situation as well...

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#103

Post by yardie »

fpgeek wrote: post #81

I'm a bit surprised no one has suggested what I consider the most likely possibility: They had no idea what getting you a visa actually entailed and bailed once you started and they discovered how hard it would be. I'm leaning that way because most people don't understand how hard visas actually are, the way they were vague about their reasons and the timing. Of course, if that's what actually happened, not telling y…

I also believe it is the visa issue. You're the COO and they are just going to figure out the visa situation, eventually? A small company doesn't have the money to get an E-visa and as COO you probably wouldn't qualify as H1B nor would you want to be when they start doing funding rounds.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#104

Post by Liesmith »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #51
JasonFruit wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say you did the right thing in not saying what the startup was — it isn't wise to look like a bridge-burner when you're looking for work.

> I'd say you did the right thing in not saying what the startup was — it isn't wise to look like a bridge-burner when you're looking for work. Today I learned that its considered "bridge burning" to communicate a company's terrible ethics in public.

Of course it is, don't be naive. The people he's talking about are in a position to badmouth him right back, end even if they don't he can get a reputation for being a whiner who will turn on people who hire him the moment things don't work out. If you think that publicly criticizing your ex-employers isn't harmful to your future prospects then you're crazy. No one wants to hire someone who might turn around and complain about them to all and sundry if things go poorly.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#105

Post by enraged_camel »

sheetjs wrote: post #83
jowiar wrote: post #26

> I like the founders - they are good guys. No. They're not. You don't get to screw around with other people's lives and continue to possess the title of "good guy". If they were good guys, you would be receiving tens of thousands of dollars for your difficulties, and such would have enough of a runway on that such that you wouldn't need to ask us for advice. Please do us all a favor and let us know who they are beyo…

> Please do us all a favor and let us know who they are beyond "a YC startup" so that none of us find ourselves in your shoes. Two other reasons for considering revealing the name: 1) a casual bystander might see this and conclude that all YC companies behave in this way, which hurts the other companies. 2) PG and other partners at YC read HN, and there's a good chance that action can be taken if they know who is inv…

Could he send a private email to PG and partners at YC? Not as a complaint but more like, "hey, just a heads up, this just happened at one of the companies you guys sponsored."

I don't know anything about investing in startups but common sense would suggest that this would raise some red flags.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#107

Post by genericuser »

jowiar wrote: post #26

> I like the founders - they are good guys. No. They're not. You don't get to screw around with other people's lives and continue to possess the title of "good guy". If they were good guys, you would be receiving tens of thousands of dollars for your difficulties, and such would have enough of a runway on that such that you wouldn't need to ask us for advice. Please do us all a favor and let us know who they are beyo…

It is indeed in the best interests of nearly everyone to explicitly state the company that is acting in a undesirable manner.

Unfortunately it is not in that companies best interest for him to state it.

And because it is not in any companies best interest to have employees that when let go will put the common good above the good of the company, it is not in his best interest either to publicize the name of the company.

With that in mind, yes please do us the favor.

As someone engaging in a job search, I know it would be appreciated by the general population to receive this information.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#108

Post by menriquez »

guybrushT wrote: post #66
viggity wrote: post #7

well, at the very least, I think it isn't out of the question to be asked to be paid for those two weeks. If they made a mistake, shit happens, but they should still be on the hook for it. I'd even consider asking for severance of a couple weeks. They've hosed you, they should try to offset it a little bit. I understand that it probably isn't about the money, but I would hope they at least offered you that.

They have offered to pay me for the two weeks.

then take the cash, move on, and don't look back...in 6 months you will barely remember this whole event.

startups are risky...high risk high reward...it didn't work out but man, if you were good enough to be hired like that you can find 100's of opportunities.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#109

Post by Liesmith »

hacknat wrote: post #63
JasonFruit wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say you did the right thing in not saying what the startup was — it isn't wise to look like a bridge-burner when you're looking for work.

Why is the burden always on the individual to not "burn the bridge"? I'd say that this startup has burnt this bridge pretty well. It would have been perfectly reasonable for him to tell us who they were and for us to avoid them like the plague.

Because the individual needs something, and the startup does not. what do they care if he is pissed? He's some unemployed dude they'll never have to deal with again. Meanwhile potentially having them as a resource who will say 'oh yeah Ex Employee was a really great guy, we regret losing him, definitely hire him if you can' is pretty much the only positive he's gonna get from this experience. Complain about them and you don't even get good word of mouth from the, just a ton of wasted time and an angry story to tell.

YCombinator people talk to one another. they go to meetups. San Francisco is an incestuous little town. It's hard to break into and having bad blood with people on the inside can make it harder.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#110

Post by balls187 »

> I let all job offers go (I had a few good ones)

Hopefully, when you turned down the job offer, you did so in a classy way. As a hiring manager, if a candidate I extended an offer to, reach back out to me after declining, and said their situation changed, I would consider making a new offer. True you lose negotiating leverage, but I would expect a percentage greater than 0 of companies that would re-engage with you.

> Told my friends/family about the job, and that I will be moving to America

This is a minor issue. Plans change. They'll get over it. Hopefully they didn't throw you a going-away party yet :)

> Reached out to all my contacts (including everyone who was trying to hire me) and attempted to sign them up for this YC service

No good deed goes unpunished. But seriously, you did the right thing by trying to help out this company. I don't see this as a problem.

> I reached out to several people (e.g. at Google, FB, Partners at a management consultancy (i.e. my former employers)) asking them for a potential investment into this company ("Use our personal networks" was a key strategy), some of these helped me find a job that I turned down

I'm sure those same potential investors will circle back around to you, and decline investing, given that you are no longer with the company.

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