Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#171

Post by govindkabra31 » Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 4:54 PM UTC

balls187 wrote: post #126

Hypothetical to the larger HN community: If you got accepted a job offer, and within 2 weeks got a job offer for more money, and at your dream company, would you feel obligated to stay with your initial decision? If you made the rational (but arguably unethical choice), do you think your reputation should be tarnished, and future employers think hard before extending an offer? I know it's not the exact situation as t…

You should actually ask this question before making decision.. and if your take it is that you would renegade on the decision, than you should delay making that decision.. and wait to find out if that dream job with higher pay actually came around.

Your current best offer will be willing to stretch out their offer for a week. And the other company will be willing to accelerate their decision process, so as to bridge this two weeks gap.

But once you made your decision, you should stick with your decision... at least for a year, all things other than this 'dream job' being equal. The dream company and the dream job-- if you got in today, you are likely going to get that again in a year.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#172

Post by guybrushT » Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 4:54 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #153

davidw wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At very conservative estimates for bay area salaries, 2 weeks is probably like $5000. Complaining about that is not "whining" in my book - that's quite a bit of money where I'm from. That said, there are various things involved with the decision.

$5k for two weeks is a pretty princely sum for employees virtually anywhere but, crucially, employees (particularly professional employees) have the reasonable expectation that they will have longer than two weeks of tenure at a new employer. If you can only reasonably expect two weeks of tenure, then you're much closer to a consultant than an employee. Nothing wrong with being a consultant, but COO-caliber consultan…

100% agree. I was a consultant for 6 years. The contract, terms of engagement, and expectations are vastly different as a consultant and as an employee. The sum of all different parts of the 'opportunity cost' are much higher as an employee, than as a consultant.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#173

Post by justplay » Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 4:54 PM UTC

jowiar wrote: post #26

> I like the founders - they are good guys. No. They're not. You don't get to screw around with other people's lives and continue to possess the title of "good guy". If they were good guys, you would be receiving tens of thousands of dollars for your difficulties, and such would have enough of a runway on that such that you wouldn't need to ask us for advice. Please do us all a favor and let us know who they are beyo…

> I like the founders - they are good guys.

They are very professional.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#174

Post by angilly » Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 4:55 PM UTC

This happens a lot.

Mentor whiplash gets the founders all frothy that they need to do X, Y, and Z _immediately_ or their company will fall apart. Unfortunately, it changes to A, B, and C a week later after meetings with another 30 people. These founders aren't bad people. They just have no idea what they're doing. They got shoved into this crazy new accelerator experience, and they're being told by their heroes that they need to XYZ and ABC immediately, and they freak out and they make decisions too quickly.

Founders joining accelerators, do yourself a favor: the minute you think you NEED to hire one of those first employees, wait a week. Wait 2. Chat with some people informally. Don't setup a coffee meeting and ambush them with your whole team. Just breathe and take your time. Building your team is the most important thing you are ever going to do. This is not cliche. The process of building one, especially that initial core team, should be respected. Talk to some people. Do some contracts with them. Take it slow.

guybrushT, this sucks for you more than most given that you (and your wife!) were moving from another country. The founders should have been more careful. If you still wanna move to the states, I'd more than happy to introduce you to a bunch of startups in Boulder. We're always looking for developers here. Shoot me an email: ryan at ramen dot is.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#175

Post by poof131 » Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 4:56 PM UTC

Liesmith wrote: post #109

hacknat wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the burden always on the individual to not "burn the bridge"? I'd say that this startup has burnt this bridge pretty well. It would have been perfectly reasonable for him to tell us who they were and for us to avoid them like the plague.

Because the individual needs something, and the startup does not. what do they care if he is pissed? He's some unemployed dude they'll never have to deal with again. Meanwhile potentially having them as a resource who will say 'oh yeah Ex Employee was a really great guy, we regret losing him, definitely hire him if you can' is pretty much the only positive he's gonna get from this experience. Complain about them and…

YCombinator people talk to one another.

They should talk to each other about why this was bad behavior. If the OP mentions the name, the company can respond with their reasons in an adult and professional manner, explain why they needed someone else, and how they are going to make this right. Then they look like smart, grounded pros willing to admit a mistake and will get some free marketing.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#176

Post by jowiar » Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 4:57 PM UTC

projectramo wrote: post #129

toomuchtodo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd say you did the right thing in not saying what the startup was — it isn't wise to look like a bridge-burner when you're looking for work. Today I learned that its considered "bridge burning" to communicate a company's terrible ethics in public.

I am going to agree with "JasonFruit" here. The company has a much rosier picture of themselves than you do (and who is to say which one is right?). Think of possible mitigating circumstances, first duty to investors, what's right for the company, we made a mistake, etc etc and who knows what else. You don't want to make enemies, have them hit back in public, etc. This is not about what is "just" but what is efficien…

Right now this company has set a standard such that I will refuse to work for any YC-backed startup without serious contractual protection.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#177

Post by eli » Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 4:57 PM UTC

pyronite wrote: post #155

fpgeek wrote: post #81

I'm a bit surprised no one has suggested what I consider the most likely possibility: They had no idea what getting you a visa actually entailed and bailed once you started and they discovered how hard it would be. I'm leaning that way because most people don't understand how hard visas actually are, the way they were vague about their reasons and the timing. Of course, if that's what actually happened, not telling y…

This is an interesting and plausible reason for why they let him go, but if it was the case, they should have came out and said exactly this. What's to lose by being honest about a visa situation?

Ignorance? Incompetence? Embarrassment?

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#178

Post by davemel37 » Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 4:58 PM UTC

Lots of back and forth about appearing like a bridge burner.

In truth though, regardless of the appearance, bridge burning is never a good idea. NEVER.

I personally know a nursing home company that fired an employee in an unprofessional way. 20 years later she became the person in charge of nursing home licensing in that state. Guess whose licenses got revoked?! 20 years later, millions of dollars in losses.

That story may be an outlier, I don't know... but a simple evaluation of the risks and benefits of burning this bridge indicate very strongly that you should not burn it.

The argument people make about "having the right to know." to be able to avoid that company is really just self-serving curiosity. I am curious too. But...it's really only appropriate to share that info. to an individual, in private, if you feel they are truly at risk of the same unfair treatment.

Just my two cents.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#179

Post by vonklaus » Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 4:58 PM UTC

fpgeek wrote: post #81

I'm a bit surprised no one has suggested what I consider the most likely possibility: They had no idea what getting you a visa actually entailed and bailed once you started and they discovered how hard it would be. I'm leaning that way because most people don't understand how hard visas actually are, the way they were vague about their reasons and the timing. Of course, if that's what actually happened, not telling y…

Right. I have to imagine the visa was a VERY important factor. I am not a huge fan of this thread because it is a bunch of speculation with less than 1 side of a multi-faceted story. These guys are probably very early stage (hiring their first employee) and are figuring things out. The "just telecommute and we can sort out an international hiring visa" is pretty alarming. Maybe the company pivoted and his skill set wasn't a good fit for the new direction, buy they likely found someone local, or just got bound by an insane amount of red-tape. The ramifications for both parties lie in the initial agreement that we are not privvy to.

Re: Ask HN: I was hired and unhired in 2 weeks, for no reason

#180

Post by maerF0x0 » Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 5:00 PM UTC

jvagner wrote: post #30

I've been a CTO/CEO and have hired many people over time. Some of this has already been said, but: 1. Those jobs may still be open, reasonable people wouldn't hold taking another job against you. Work is work, and those who step back into discussion with you will show you a reasonableness that you will value more than before. 2. Situations like this is why sign-ing bonuses were invented. If you're COO of anything, yo…

Can you give some advice on how other positions can argue such risk mitigation? 6 months severance would get every Software dev/eng laughed out to the street. as far as my experience goes, signing bonuses are out too. Usually the company is eating a massive training cost for the first 6 months, saying to them "In addition to training cost, I want X risk mitigation" seems unlikely to be met with agreement.