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Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS

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Re: Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS

#21

Post by fabrice_d »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #11

I really wish Mozilla would put the resources currently behind Firefox OS and use them for something like a modern libgecko and standalone gecko wrapper that runs on different environments instead of making an OS. The blink/webkit monoculture is causing issues but every app is embedding it because gecko as a platform for embedding is essentially dead.

At this point making gecko nicely embeddable is not worth the cost in engineering resources compared to what it would bring in. Servo, the next generation browser is being designed to be easy to reuse and this is what Mozilla is focusing on in this area.

Re: Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS

#22

Post by fabrice_d »

gcb0 wrote: post #6

it's all hacks and fun until you realize you now can't run any extension or global change in the 'browser'. :( though another hack should be able to take of this easily... maybe even without forcing extension authors to change their extensions...

That will come, when I or someone else has time to finish https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=923897

These won't be similar to the old Firefox extensions because that really does not make sense on FirefoxOS, but this is similar to user scripts and user styles.

Re: Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS

#23

Post by darklajid »

seagrass wrote: post #17
fred_durst wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been building my ZTE Open since pretty close to its initially release. I also use it as my daily device. Also, I think this is your 3rd time(in my recent memory) derailing a Firefox OS thread to talk about how there are no phones in stores etc. Are you an astro turfer or are you just really angry at Mozilla for some reason?

>I've been building my ZTE Open since pretty close to its initially release. I also use it as my daily device. I bought a ZTE Open off of ebay back in April. My Nexus 4 broke in July. I have been using the ZTE Open as my daily device since. I built from source (Boot2Gecko 1.4.0.0-prerelease) and, from my experience: - Sometimes when I open an MMS message and click the back button, my phone reboots - If I open a conte…

As stated elsewhere, please do try a recent vsrsion. 2.x changed a lot for me.

Re: Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS

#24

Post by darklajid »

fred_durst wrote: post #19
antonios wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% spot on. Too many features missing. The flashing procedure is problematic as well (for the ZTE "open" C you need a custom patch found in a bug report, and you have to be extremely carefull not to brick the device.) I purchased a ZTE Open C just to try out Firefox and the internet browsing experience. You can't change tabs unless you scroll all the way to the top, otherwise the address bar is hidden. Needless to…

Funny you should mention that. It is the top thread right now on the dev-gaia mailing list. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mozilla.dev.gaia/QP7...

Note that this thread discusses the "I actually want to scroll to the top" use case, which might take a while for long pages. People in that estimate that this is a Common Thing you want to do.

The GP complains about being _required_ to scroll to the top to reach the address bar/the tabs, which is plain wrong (but might be a case of bad discoverability?).

Re: Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS

#25

Post by antonios »

darklajid wrote: post #15
antonios wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% spot on. Too many features missing. The flashing procedure is problematic as well (for the ZTE "open" C you need a custom patch found in a bug report, and you have to be extremely carefull not to brick the device.) I purchased a ZTE Open C just to try out Firefox and the internet browsing experience. You can't change tabs unless you scroll all the way to the top, otherwise the address bar is hidden. Needless to…

That is confusing. The behavior is similar/equal to the Android Firefox: Scroll down, address bar goes off-screen. Want it back? Scroll a small amount up, albeit rapidly. Think 'pull down' on the content. Did you mias that (we can argue about whether that's intuitive) or does that plain not work for you? Scrolling back to the top should definitely be unnecessary.. Works just fine for me (typing on Android, in Aurora)…

> Want it back? Scroll a small amount up, albeit rapidly.

Doesn't work. AFAIK, there isn't a way to show the address bar unless you scroll all the way up to the top. I'm aware that Firefox on Android has the behaviour you mention.

Also, I haven't yet found a way to quickly scroll up to the top of a page.

Re: Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS

#26

Post by ianbicking »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #11

I really wish Mozilla would put the resources currently behind Firefox OS and use them for something like a modern libgecko and standalone gecko wrapper that runs on different environments instead of making an OS. The blink/webkit monoculture is causing issues but every app is embedding it because gecko as a platform for embedding is essentially dead.

I think it is unlikely that the presence of a nice libgecko would change the dominance of Blink/WebKit on Android and iOS. Mozilla didn't really enter that fight, but even if we had I think we'd have lost (which frankly makes our lack of effort there seem wise).

Re: Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS

#27

Post by benfrancis »

Lerc wrote: post #16

>I tried adding features to the browser app and every time I found something that wasn’t possible with current web technologies, I went back to Justin to get him to cast a new magic spell. As someone who working on a project that is beyond your average webapp [1][2], That is one of the most infuriating things to read. I need a Magic Justin! Where can you get a Magic Justin? [1] http://i.imgur.com/cLcirMy.jpg [2] http…

I recommend the dev-webapi mailing list. It is full of Magic Justins waiting to cast new magic spells for you.

https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-webapi

Re: Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS

#28

Post by darklajid »

antonios wrote: post #25
darklajid wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is confusing. The behavior is similar/equal to the Android Firefox: Scroll down, address bar goes off-screen. Want it back? Scroll a small amount up, albeit rapidly. Think 'pull down' on the content. Did you mias that (we can argue about whether that's intuitive) or does that plain not work for you? Scrolling back to the top should definitely be unnecessary.. Works just fine for me (typing on Android, in Aurora)…

> Want it back? Scroll a small amount up, albeit rapidly. Doesn't work. AFAIK, there isn't a way to show the address bar unless you scroll all the way up to the top. I'm aware that Firefox on Android has the behaviour you mention. Also, I haven't yet found a way to quickly scroll up to the top of a page.

Apologies. I was absolutely certain that this would work, did work. After your comment I grabbed the Flame from upstairs and .. actually tested it.

Yep, seems to be missing here as well (2.1 prerelease). Sorry for speaking first, testing later.

Re: Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS

#29

Post by Pacabel »

fred_durst wrote: post #8
gcb0 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you think about purchasing a device don't. the work so far can all be done with emulator. DO NOT BUY A DEVICE. and as the parent just said, the performance on the emulator is MUCH better than the real device. it is just more waste in the world. Also, if anyone want a couple firefox phones msg me. i have a couple left. i got them when i believed that since they were going to be sold in stores, they would be consu…

I've been building my ZTE Open since pretty close to its initially release. I also use it as my daily device. Also, I think this is your 3rd time(in my recent memory) derailing a Firefox OS thread to talk about how there are no phones in stores etc. Are you an astro turfer or are you just really angry at Mozilla for some reason?

I've been seeing these ultra-defensive "Are you an astro turfer or are you just really angry at Mozilla for some reason?"-style responses more and more from the Mozilla community lately, especially when somebody has raised some perfectly good and legitimate points about deficiencies with one of their products.

When discussing Firefox OS, it's perfectly reasonable and relevant to bring up issues surrounding the quality and the ease of acquiring devices that run Firefox OS. These factors have an absolutely massive impact on the experience of everyone involved, from developers to end users, and will directly influence the ability of Firefox OS to capture any substantial share of the market.

Attacking the people who raise awareness of these very real problems with these unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about "astroturfing" or weird accusations of "anger at Mozilla" won't do Mozilla or anyone else any good.

Instead, maybe listen to what people are saying! The limited availability of phones running Firefox OS is causing people problems, and affecting its adoption and usefulness. The devices it has been available on so far have not been very good, even compared to where Android and iOS were years ago. People aren't just making these problems up; they're very real problems! The same goes for problems that people bring up about Firefox, or Rust, or any of Mozilla's other offerings.

Admitting to the existence of these problems, and then resolving them, will have a much more positive impact than attacking anyone who happens to bring them up. The fact that people have to bring them up again and again indicates that they aren't being resolved properly, and that more work is needed.

Re: Building the Firefox browser for Firefox OS

#30

Post by Pacabel »

fred_durst wrote: post #13
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, I think this is your 3rd time(in my recent memory) derailing a Firefox OS thread to talk about how there are no phones in stores etc. Are you an astro turfer or are you just really angry at Mozilla for some reason? I'm sorry but he's right. The OS is not good, the phones are not powerful, they are barely available and because they are web based they have no unique selling point over any other platform. You ca…

But what does any of that have to do with the process of designing and developing Firefox OS? You also just kind of seem like an astroturfer. Android was not mentioned anywhere in that article as far as I could tell. Why are you posting that here?

Firefox OS doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's facing some very strong competition from Android, iOS, BlackBerry OS, and numerous other mobile operating systems and platforms.

It makes absolutely no sense to consider Firefox OS by itself. It needs to be considered within the larger context. Unfortunately, like others have pointed out, Firefox OS is not competing very well against the alternatives at this point.

It currently provides a worse experience than its competitors in pretty much every way. I don't think this is something that can be denied. Mozilla and the Firefox OS community will need to face these problems.

And these "astroturfer" accusations from you are kind of weird. Pointing out obvious flaws with software and hardware does not mean that the people pointing them out are being paid by Apple, or Google, or any other company or organization. It probably just means that they'd like to see these problems resolved, for the sake of Firefox OS and its potential success.

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