Is this really relevant to Hacker News?
Israel spied on John Kerry during peace effort – report
21–29 of 29 posts
Re: Israel spied on John Kerry during peace effort – report
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Israel is a nuclear state They've never confirm this, only that it is believe that Israel possess nuclear weapons. > Culturally and historically, the state of Israel was established by the Allies post WW2. So there is a moral obligation as well for the Allies (US, France, UK, etc. etc.) to watch out for what Israel does today. There shouldn't be any morale obligation at all when they, the Jewish people chose the sp…
I appreciate your serious response. Let's look at it this way, they got nuclear weapon, so they got a free pass for their horrible behavior against USA? The President and John Kerry? It isn't horrible behavior. It is standard behavior that has been going on since the dawn of Israel. We catch their spies all the time, and they catch our spies all the time. US / Israel relations are funny like that. We don't really tru…
You don't need each other. All what Israel does is alienate the US and protects Israel's horrific acts and occupation of the Palestinian people.
Re: Israel spied on John Kerry during peace effort – report
#23I'm shocked--shocked--that the Mossad would dare to spy on a foreign official.
Reminds me of the little trichotomy I grabbed from Huizinga's Homo Ludens: good-faith, cheater, xor spoil-sport. I don't think that cheating exists in diplomacy. It's all part of the game. Counterintelligence what it is, I expect that the intelligence was received by the Israelis with some skepticism.
Re: Israel spied on John Kerry during peace effort – report
#24I'm most likley going to be down-voted into oblivion and called "anti-semetic" even though i'm half semitc. A really serious question, why is it our job to continue to support Israel? They continue to humiliate John Kerry and Obama. It seems like a one sided deal. We continue to give them whatever they want. And we get absolutely nothing back in return. --- Edit: Hmm, I wonder why this post was shot down so fast.
It mostly has to do with Congressional politics, and some electoral politics, too (with Florida being one of the largest swing states and having a significant bloc of pro-Israel voters). As long as politicians get elected by supporting Israel, that's what US policy will be... even if it's not in the nation's interest.
I remember reading a long time ago that many people in our government have duel Israeli/USA citizenship. I just did a google search for "USA cabinet members Israeli citizens" and there seem to be a lot of results; one of the first is https://www.facebook.com/notes/we-are-all-vittorio-arrigoni/... - about 1/3 of the way down the page is a long list of people in power who likely have dual citizenship.
I am not sure why this would even be legal. How can one person be loyal to two countries?
Re: Israel spied on John Kerry during peace effort – report
#25Is this really relevant to Hacker News?
anything 'eavesdropping' is relevant here, I'd say
Re: Israel spied on John Kerry during peace effort – report
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I appreciate your serious response. Let's look at it this way, they got nuclear weapon, so they got a free pass for their horrible behavior against USA? The President and John Kerry? It isn't horrible behavior. It is standard behavior that has been going on since the dawn of Israel. We catch their spies all the time, and they catch our spies all the time. US / Israel relations are funny like that. We don't really tru…
You don't need each other. All what Israel does is alienate the US and protects Israel's horrific acts and occupation of the Palestinian people.
The way I see it, the US is currently using its influence to hold Israel back. If it weren't for the US, Israel would have long ago already performed a "first strike" against Iran.
Anyway, I think Israel's "occupation" of the Gaza strip technically ended in 2005. Gaza is the current location of conflict once again, because Hamas (not "Palestine", but Hamas specifically) is using Gaza as a spring board to launch rockets into Israel.
I understand Israel's point of view. Israel _gave up_ Gaza 9 years ago, and the current conflict is the thanks that they get for leaving. Mind you, it is Israel that supplies water, power, and utilities to the people in Gaza.
Furthermore, the "Palestinians" are hardly a group of unified people. They are a divided, complicated group that have been proven difficult to reason with. IE: Hamas does not represent the typical Palestinians, and Israel seems to understand that.
At very least, the Israel Electric Corp who are sending their engineers to fix power lines to Gaza (while under rocket fire) are willing to work with the people living within the Gaza strip.
Don't boil this discussion into a silly "Red vs Blue" fight. The politics of this region are very complicated.
Re: Israel spied on John Kerry during peace effort – report
#27I'm most likley going to be down-voted into oblivion and called "anti-semetic" even though i'm half semitc. A really serious question, why is it our job to continue to support Israel? They continue to humiliate John Kerry and Obama. It seems like a one sided deal. We continue to give them whatever they want. And we get absolutely nothing back in return. --- Edit: Hmm, I wonder why this post was shot down so fast.
Because we are getting things back in return. Israel is a nuclear state with good relations with us. US has weapons contracts which help defend Israel... one of the very very few countries that the US exports to. Culturally and historically, the state of Israel was established by the Allies post WW2. So there is a moral obligation as well for the Allies (US, France, UK, etc. etc.) to watch out for what Israel does to…
It's because of Israel's actions towards the Palestinians that the Arab world hates the West so much - after all, the US funds and condones it.
Re: Israel spied on John Kerry during peace effort – report
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because we are getting things back in return. Israel is a nuclear state with good relations with us. US has weapons contracts which help defend Israel... one of the very very few countries that the US exports to. Culturally and historically, the state of Israel was established by the Allies post WW2. So there is a moral obligation as well for the Allies (US, France, UK, etc. etc.) to watch out for what Israel does to…
It's because of Israel's actions towards the Palestinians that the Arab world hates the West so much - after all, the US funds and condones it.
Erm... no.
Iran hates us because we messed their country up good. Installing dictators, destroying their democracy, stealing their oil... etc. etc. US Foreign Policy in the 50s and 60s were freaking terrible.
Plus, the US is seen as highly ignorant. Saudi Arabia is our ally, but they fund Al Qaeda, support Salafi / Wahhabi Muslims which spawned Bin Laden. We funnel money into Saudi Arabian princes who then funnel money into ISIS and Al Qaeda and piss off all of the other Muslims around.
Trust me, we don't need Israel for the Middle East to hate us.
Re: Israel spied on John Kerry during peace effort – report
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't need each other. All what Israel does is alienate the US and protects Israel's horrific acts and occupation of the Palestinian people.
The way I see it, the US is currently using its influence to hold Israel back. If it weren't for the US, Israel would have long ago already performed a "first strike" against Iran. Anyway, I think Israel's "occupation" of the Gaza strip technically ended in 2005. Gaza is the current location of conflict once again, because Hamas (not "Palestine", but Hamas specifically) is using Gaza as a spring board to launch rocke…
You are mistaken on too many dimensions.