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UK to allow driverless cars on public roads in January

bbc.com

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Re: UK to allow driverless cars on public roads in January

#51

Post by purringmeow »

cordite wrote: post #36
purringmeow wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That occupation will disappear, save for a few high-end human driver services, IMO. After the taxis come the trucks. I am quite certain shipping companies will be the quick ditch humans. After all, this means no more travel expenses & salaries, no more breaks, probably automatic unloading too! Goods will get cheaper, although hundreds of thousands of people will be out of work. I am scared.

There might be some jobs created, perhaps not as much. Consider, what if several shipping companies delegated fuel administration to a company that had manned staff 24/7 at places like Flying J diesel and gas fuel locations? If you have autonomous trucks coming in, I don't see tons of places upgrading their facilities to support robotic administration. (At least for a few years) There's also maintenance when there ar…

Why have manned gas stations? That's actually pretty easy to automate, since the trucks are stationery and there is already a standard for fuel tank holes. I am 100% sure that 30-40 years from now on, we are going to have automated trucks & gas stations with automated payments done from a system that computes routes based on thousands of variables.

Re: UK to allow driverless cars on public roads in January

#52

Post by CamperBob2 »

roc wrote: post #47
joncrocks wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that liability will be assessed the same way it is now, the answer isn't always: If it's your car, you are at fault. There are examples of situations where a car producer/manufacturer was at fault for accidents, caused by bad software. The question is where that line will be in the myriad of situations that will be more complex due to the the introduction of automation. The control system itself is then…

> " The question is where that line will be in the myriad of situations that will be more complex due to the the introduction of automation." It will be determined via litigation, as it is now. Technological complexity of subject matter has yet to present any serious roadblock, or cause any significant change, in the prosecution of the law. Similarly, whether neglected maintenance (or third-party modifications/parts)…

Technological complexity of subject matter has yet to present any serious roadblock, or cause any significant change, in the prosecution of the law.

Ridiculous. To cite only one counterexample, self-driving cars will make the controversy over the EU's "right to be forgotten" law look like a polite discussion over a beer.

That said, the problems are solvable and we'll all ultimately be better off for facing them.

Re: UK to allow driverless cars on public roads in January

#53

Post by krapp »

georgemcbay wrote: post #48
Buttons840 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. I think of turning right at a crosswalk where some pedestrian is really anxious for their turn to walk, so they're standing right on the edge of the curb. I always pay careful attention to them and rely on my human intuition of body language, eye contact, etc, until I feel comfortable that they're going to remain on the edge of the curb instead of steeping out in front of me during my turn. A robot can't…

A robot should always assume the person might suddenly enter the street regardless of body language or other clues and drive at speeds that allow safe stopping if that occurs. A person driving should do the same. I don't see the discrepancy.

The discrepancy is there are ~millions of years of evolution to account for our ability to immediately process and react to unexpected actions around us - whereas self driving cars, doubtlessly, will not be debuted to the public with nearly as much complexity - humans are not designed with affordability and profit in mind. Theoretically, what you're saying is correct, but the practical reality is likely to be a lot different. The best possible implementation isn't likely to be the one which hits the mass market.

Re: UK to allow driverless cars on public roads in January

#54

Post by TeMPOraL »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #52
roc wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " The question is where that line will be in the myriad of situations that will be more complex due to the the introduction of automation." It will be determined via litigation, as it is now. Technological complexity of subject matter has yet to present any serious roadblock, or cause any significant change, in the prosecution of the law. Similarly, whether neglected maintenance (or third-party modifications/parts)…

Technological complexity of subject matter has yet to present any serious roadblock, or cause any significant change, in the prosecution of the law. Ridiculous. To cite only one counterexample, self-driving cars will make the controversy over the EU's "right to be forgotten" law look like a polite discussion over a beer. That said, the problems are solvable and we'll all ultimately be better off for facing them.

>> has yet to present any serious roadblock

> To cite only one counterexample, self-driving cars will make...

Hey, something's not right... ;).

Please clarify your point with a non-circular example.

Re: UK to allow driverless cars on public roads in January

#55

Post by srl »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #49

A friend of mine noted that you could put self driving cars on the road in Italy right now and nobody would notice :-) I agree with the consensus that driverless cars are inevitable. And knowing that they are inevitable is kind of like knowing a train is going to derail on a curve before it does. You get some time to think about what is going to happen next. In the train case you would do things like get movable prop…

I'd say that the defining aspect of the original 'moonshot' technology was there was (sadly) no opportunity for commercial gain. Contrast with here, where, for a myriad of reasons, people could easily be convinced to pay substantially more for a driverless car (once safety is well-established).

Re: UK to allow driverless cars on public roads in January

#56

Post by joncrocks »

Already__Taken wrote: post #44
joncrocks wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that liability will be assessed the same way it is now, the answer isn't always: If it's your car, you are at fault. There are examples of situations where a car producer/manufacturer was at fault for accidents, caused by bad software. The question is where that line will be in the myriad of situations that will be more complex due to the the introduction of automation. The control system itself is then…

> would there be regular sensor cleaning/calibration tasks that need to be met before the manufacturer is deemed liable? What about tire pressure? As someone from the UK, I'm amazed that isn't the case. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOT_test#Overview_of_the_test

I'm actually from the UK as well, and am constantly surprised that in some US states there are no mandatory inspections of roadworthy-ness.

Re: UK to allow driverless cars on public roads in January

#57

Post by cordite »

purringmeow wrote: post #51
cordite wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be some jobs created, perhaps not as much. Consider, what if several shipping companies delegated fuel administration to a company that had manned staff 24/7 at places like Flying J diesel and gas fuel locations? If you have autonomous trucks coming in, I don't see tons of places upgrading their facilities to support robotic administration. (At least for a few years) There's also maintenance when there ar…

Why have manned gas stations? That's actually pretty easy to automate, since the trucks are stationery and there is already a standard for fuel tank holes. I am 100% sure that 30-40 years from now on, we are going to have automated trucks & gas stations with automated payments done from a system that computes routes based on thousands of variables.

Apart from fueling (until automation), it seems like a reasonable place to have maintenance and inspections.

Re: UK to allow driverless cars on public roads in January

#58

Post by pekk »

Someone1234 wrote: post #9
joncrocks wrote: post #2

UK to allow tests of driverless cars on public roads to start in January. In the same way that has already begun in the rest of the world. Same legal/insurance issues stand (as elsewhere) and are likely the bigger barrier to adoption.

Since there are a total of zero commercially available driverless cars, was that distinction really required? Nowhere in the world has permitted non-test driverless cars because non-test driverless cars aren't a thing yet. The whole "rest of the world" remark seems like smug condescension. Which is a little odd as only a small handful of places even allow test-cars to be run on public roads. Plus isn't this a welcome…

I appreciated the clarification since I don't closely follow the situation, and the headline suggested to me that UK was somehow ahead of everyone else here.

Re: UK to allow driverless cars on public roads in January

#60

Post by hueving »

Someone1234 wrote: post #9
joncrocks wrote: post #2

UK to allow tests of driverless cars on public roads to start in January. In the same way that has already begun in the rest of the world. Same legal/insurance issues stand (as elsewhere) and are likely the bigger barrier to adoption.

Since there are a total of zero commercially available driverless cars, was that distinction really required? Nowhere in the world has permitted non-test driverless cars because non-test driverless cars aren't a thing yet. The whole "rest of the world" remark seems like smug condescension. Which is a little odd as only a small handful of places even allow test-cars to be run on public roads. Plus isn't this a welcome…

There is no grid in most of the US either.
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