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Employment rates for STEM Ph.D.s are down or stagnant across the board

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Re: Employment rates for STEM Ph.D.s are down or stagnant across the board

#111
post #95
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading your post, about halfway through I started thinking 'hey this reads like a post by...' glances up at username 'oh look, it actually is' skips rest of post .

What's the background on why we should ignore michaelochurch?

I'm waiting on this, as well.

Re: Employment rates for STEM Ph.D.s are down or stagnant across the board

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, Academia is in decline. Sort of. It's in decline the way journalism is in decline, which is to say: there's more of it than ever, and the people who are Getting It Done are thriving in new, 21st century institutions. But people who just want a job "in the industry", whether it is journalism or academics, are going to have a bad time as vast swaths of "the industry" crumble in response to competition that act…

But people who just want a job "in the industry", whether it is journalism or academics, are going to have a bad time Don't look down on those "just want a job" people. When you don't have an income, the need to get one consumes you. Working "for passion" is a luxury of trust-fund kids and people who pulled off their exits before the Valley became a scam. The idea that it's dishonorable to work for money is classism.…

I might come a bit late to the party, but I should say not all hope is lost yet. I think there's a lot of inefficiency in the labour market. I'm currently in a really good university doing research, and all the software engineers & computer scientists hired in many labs I know tend to be quite awful, with some exceptions.

Re: Employment rates for STEM Ph.D.s are down or stagnant across the board

#113
post #95
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was reading your post, about halfway through I started thinking 'hey this reads like a post by...' glances up at username 'oh look, it actually is' skips rest of post .

What's the background on why we should ignore michaelochurch?

In any thread that is (remotely) about employers requiring degrees for software engineers, or anything that has to do with working at/for Google, he is (irrationally) vocal about the worthlessness of degrees, how much Google sucks, and in general how much software people are discriminates against / should be paid more. From a quick google it even seems he has a blog about this.

Look, I don't know the guy - apparently he worked for Google for a (very) short time, had a semi-public falling out with a bunch of people there, and since then got into a couple of nasty flamewars with Google'ers (and others, from what I can tell) here and elsewhere. I don't care one way or the other really, to me (and to many regulars here, methinks) he's like one of those street preachers wearing 'repent now' and 'the devil is amongst us' buttons; a part of the urban scenery that is best not engaged with, lest you'll spend the rest of your day going back-and-forth in an 'argument' that can't be 'won' (even for the most lenient definition of 'won').

But if I'm mistaking the GP for somebody else, my apologies.

Re: Employment rates for STEM Ph.D.s are down or stagnant across the board

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's just that their solutions - like stack ranking, restructurings, org structures, etc. - tend to soak engineers like you, while your solutions - like open allocation or programmer's unions - tend to soak managers and consultants like them." Spot on! The reason for the angst is that typically management and consultants call the shots and the software developers are ignored. It is incredibly frustrating when your c…

Savvy consultants make a business model out of this: interview the line workers to figure out what the actual problems are, and then repeat their recommendations back to management. The line workers get listened to, the managers get solutions, and the consultants get paid. It's basically trust arbitrage, exploiting an inefficiency in manager's decision-making to turn superficial characteristics into money with very l…

"Anyways, the solution isn't to complain."

I strongly support the michaelochurch's of the industry because if we actually saw the kind of changes they speak of on a large scale we would be decades ahead technologically and the vast majority of people would be better off.

However, people who complain "in the small" and do nothing about it are perpetuating the existing system.

E.g. If you know key decisions are made outside of and before meetings then work within that system to get what you want.

Or if people get hired based on who they know then spend a little bit of time each month networking. The number of chumps I know who complain about this but never network is insane.

Or if you have expert knowledge of a critical legacy system then make sure you are compensated appropriately. $500k/year is nothing compared to the cost of replacing you in the short term (4-5 years). Or you could leverage your expertise into a decent management role.

Re: Employment rates for STEM Ph.D.s are down or stagnant across the board

#115
post #92
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another option, at least in the United States if you're a citizen, is to do contract work for the Department of Defense. Step 1: Acquire STEM Ph.D. Step 2: Get a job with a DoD contractor. Step 3: Profit! A short look at job options in academia disabused me of pursuing that option. Working twice as hard for half the pay? No thanks.

I think you forgot: Step 1.5: Drop ethics.

I'm a-okay with my job, and it's great that you're not. That means one less person I'm competing against in the applicant pool. And that pool is already substantially limited by excluding non-citizens.

Re: Employment rates for STEM Ph.D.s are down or stagnant across the board

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, Academia is in decline. Sort of. It's in decline the way journalism is in decline, which is to say: there's more of it than ever, and the people who are Getting It Done are thriving in new, 21st century institutions. But people who just want a job "in the industry", whether it is journalism or academics, are going to have a bad time as vast swaths of "the industry" crumble in response to competition that act…

But people who just want a job "in the industry", whether it is journalism or academics, are going to have a bad time Don't look down on those "just want a job" people. When you don't have an income, the need to get one consumes you. Working "for passion" is a luxury of trust-fund kids and people who pulled off their exits before the Valley became a scam. The idea that it's dishonorable to work for money is classism.…

I wasn't distinguishing between those who need a job and those who want a job. I was distinguishing between those who want to do the work (no matter their motivation) and those who just want to have the position.
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