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Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

krebsonsecurity.com

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Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#41

Post by megablast »

johnvschmitt wrote: post #8

As opposed to how VC's drain competitor's adwords budgets? Meaning, this is too often how I see competitive bids going over time: 1) You sell a widget for $100, and it costs you $50, so you spend $10 on the ad, & make $40 margin. 2) Your competition gets in, & has similar price/costs, & bids $11 on the ad. 3) After a few iterations, you both bid $49.50 for the ad, making near zero (positive) margins & stay in busines…

This is why it is always hard to compete with startups. You sell an app, they bring out a free app. They don't have to make money like regular people, they just need users to get backing. You need money because you are a regular person.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#42

Post by Throwaway823 »

elorant wrote: post #33
Throwaway823 wrote: post #22

Slightly different, but I had a user attempt to get my AdSense account banned by repeatedly clicking ads for days. Sadly, for the advertisers, Google didn't do a thing. This user racked up close to 10,000 clicks, my earnings skyrocketed for a day or two, and I contacted Google with clear evidence pointing to a particular IP address, and explained the situation in-depth with server logs. This was submitted through the…

Best thing to do to avoid clickbombing is to write a script that will not allow multiple clicks from the same IP/cookie. Judging by the fact that the guy who clicked your ads didn’t even bother to change his IP chances are he wasn’t a hacker, just someone who holds a grange towards you and tried something utterly stupid to avenge you.

It was a user with a grudge that was banned from the service. They attempted to use a number of online point and click tools to attack the site, until I eventually banned their IP address, and then talked with them and threatened legal action.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#43

Post by Throwaway823 »

rogerdpack wrote: post #31
Throwaway823 wrote: post #22

Slightly different, but I had a user attempt to get my AdSense account banned by repeatedly clicking ads for days. Sadly, for the advertisers, Google didn't do a thing. This user racked up close to 10,000 clicks, my earnings skyrocketed for a day or two, and I contacted Google with clear evidence pointing to a particular IP address, and explained the situation in-depth with server logs. This was submitted through the…

And you actually got paid for those clicks? That is bizarre, I would have thought that google had some system to automatically detect the "click fraudsters" and not charge for their clicks...I mean how hard is it to stop counting clicks after somebody's done it 5 times or so from the same site? But I guess google is actually making money from those fraudsters [since they charge the advertisers] so...maybe that's why…

Yes, I was paid for them. I was expecting the numbers to be corrected in the weeks to follow, which occasionally happens during strange activity. However, it was nearly a year ago, nothing happened, and the money arrived in my account.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#44

Post by opendais »

spacemanmatt wrote: post #39
zo1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside, I'd like to add this bit of information: People get up in arms when a large "corporation" or "well-established player" in the market throws their capital weight around to bud out budding investors by selling at a loss. But, as you can see in this thread, they turnaround and have a completely different take on the matter when it's a "VC-backed startup" using its newly-acquired capital to drown out competi…

This is why we need anti-trust law. There are cases where throwing your capital around is appropriate, and there are cases where it is anti-competitive.

Pretty much this ;)

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#45

Post by iancarroll »

zapu wrote: post #40
iancarroll wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They care about fraud. That is a VERY rare case of an advertiser getting paid from fraud. I have been banned (intentionally) by their system and it is very clever at times. Create a few accounts and see how far you get to $100.

How do you "create a few accounts"? I was under impression that once they ban you, it's over. Same person can't create more than one account. And can't create another one after a ban.

I've created at least three with the same name, haha.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#46

Post by logicallee »

Throwaway823 wrote: post #42
elorant wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best thing to do to avoid clickbombing is to write a script that will not allow multiple clicks from the same IP/cookie. Judging by the fact that the guy who clicked your ads didn’t even bother to change his IP chances are he wasn’t a hacker, just someone who holds a grange towards you and tried something utterly stupid to avenge you.

It was a user with a grudge that was banned from the service. They attempted to use a number of online point and click tools to attack the site, until I eventually banned their IP address, and then talked with them and threatened legal action.

This whole thread people discuss technical mitigations, and I'm thinking "man, this is such a clear case where a bit of law and the tiniest amount of civil damages totally would fix the situation, as long as the attacking person lives in a country with a level of rule of law." What a waste of resources trying to make something impossible, rather than just illegal. (I was thinking mostly of the anticompetitive acts and the title.)

Your comment actually shows a clear example, of how actually threatening legal action makes someone come to their senses, whereas any level of technical measures just gamified the situation.

This is just a case where we can collectively enter an arms race for technical solutions, or just use a bit of law and live in a sane society where this isn't on the competitive menu.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#48

Post by dangrossman »

JustinJBM wrote: post #25
dangrossman wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They get paid for another month, or maybe a few, until the advertiser sees that their ads now cost more than the revenue they bring in, as the fake/purchased clicks don't ever buy the company's products or services. At that point logic dictates that they cancel their ads with Google. Google would have earned that bit of money either way, but now they've lost all the future revenues from that business. If you dig into…

This is about Company A removing Company B, C, D, & E from the search results so that Company A gets all the sales and leads from that day. Company A would be happy if it scares them away permanently -- then they don't even have to pay the Hacker to deplete their daily budget anymore. These particular hackers obviously have a service that Google's Invalid Clicks detection cannot pick up and it's successfully depletin…

Right. You can only remove Company B-E's ads by depleting their daily budgets. The service Company A paid for does not include purchasing Company B-E's products or services, just knocking out their ads. Those advertisers will see a negative ROI from their Google ads and eventually cancel them. Now Google has lost four customers and the one that remains no longer has to compete for ad space. Google loses all of Company B-E's ad spend, and most of Company A's ad spend as it can drastically lower its bids. They are not "still being paid", which is why they are heavily incentivized to identify this fraud and ignore or refund for the clicks that company is generating.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#50

Post by throwawayads »

Throwaway823 wrote: post #22

Slightly different, but I had a user attempt to get my AdSense account banned by repeatedly clicking ads for days. Sadly, for the advertisers, Google didn't do a thing. This user racked up close to 10,000 clicks, my earnings skyrocketed for a day or two, and I contacted Google with clear evidence pointing to a particular IP address, and explained the situation in-depth with server logs. This was submitted through the…

AdSense keeps doing the most un-Googly, "evil" thing and getting away with it. - https://medium.com/@ad_insider/googles-latest-monopoly-trick...

They don't even realize how much they are hurting Google in that process.

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