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Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

krebsonsecurity.com

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Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#31

Post by rogerdpack »

Throwaway823 wrote: post #22

Slightly different, but I had a user attempt to get my AdSense account banned by repeatedly clicking ads for days. Sadly, for the advertisers, Google didn't do a thing. This user racked up close to 10,000 clicks, my earnings skyrocketed for a day or two, and I contacted Google with clear evidence pointing to a particular IP address, and explained the situation in-depth with server logs. This was submitted through the…

And you actually got paid for those clicks? That is bizarre, I would have thought that google had some system to automatically detect the "click fraudsters" and not charge for their clicks...I mean how hard is it to stop counting clicks after somebody's done it 5 times or so from the same site? But I guess google is actually making money from those fraudsters [since they charge the advertisers] so...maybe that's why they don't care as much about fraud LOL.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#32

Post by iancarroll »

rogerdpack wrote: post #31
Throwaway823 wrote: post #22

Slightly different, but I had a user attempt to get my AdSense account banned by repeatedly clicking ads for days. Sadly, for the advertisers, Google didn't do a thing. This user racked up close to 10,000 clicks, my earnings skyrocketed for a day or two, and I contacted Google with clear evidence pointing to a particular IP address, and explained the situation in-depth with server logs. This was submitted through the…

And you actually got paid for those clicks? That is bizarre, I would have thought that google had some system to automatically detect the "click fraudsters" and not charge for their clicks...I mean how hard is it to stop counting clicks after somebody's done it 5 times or so from the same site? But I guess google is actually making money from those fraudsters [since they charge the advertisers] so...maybe that's why…

They care about fraud. That is a VERY rare case of an advertiser getting paid from fraud. I have been banned (intentionally) by their system and it is very clever at times.

Create a few accounts and see how far you get to $100.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#33

Post by elorant »

Throwaway823 wrote: post #22

Slightly different, but I had a user attempt to get my AdSense account banned by repeatedly clicking ads for days. Sadly, for the advertisers, Google didn't do a thing. This user racked up close to 10,000 clicks, my earnings skyrocketed for a day or two, and I contacted Google with clear evidence pointing to a particular IP address, and explained the situation in-depth with server logs. This was submitted through the…

Best thing to do to avoid clickbombing is to write a script that will not allow multiple clicks from the same IP/cookie. Judging by the fact that the guy who clicked your ads didn’t even bother to change his IP chances are he wasn’t a hacker, just someone who holds a grange towards you and tried something utterly stupid to avenge you.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#34

Post by bsaul »

People complain a lot about Google here, but some people working in the business for a while will remember the miva ad network. Boy was that network ugly. Sometimes during the month you would see a bump of traffic of 100x magnitude on all customers and of course no conversion at all. We used to say "looks like miva needs some cash this month".

Google adwords/adsense didn't win by being a monopoly, they won because they were simply the best. Then they became a monopoly.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#35

Post by crdoconnor »

chii wrote: post #26
crdoconnor wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're doing it with the expectation that deeper pockets can substitute for innovative / better products. Sometimes they're right.

if the product by the bootstrapped startup is indeed more innovative (read: better), then it won't (or at least, shouldn't) matter that the VC backed startup tries tactics like this. If both their products are generic/simple, then yes, draining your competitor's ad budget is akin to you having more budget to spend. Advertising is a zero sum game after all.

>if the product by the bootstrapped startup is indeed more innovative (read: better), then it won't (or at least, shouldn't) matter that the VC backed startup tries tactics like this.

Life is unfair. You can either be in denial about that or learn to live with it.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#36

Post by zo1 »

notahacker wrote: post #16
opendais wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough but by bringing it up in a thread about someone with a botnet screwing people over...its pretty reasonable to conclude that is what you meant.

Whilst most VCs aren't doing anything anywhere near as patently unethical as funding a Clickfraud-as-a-Service app, if they're "disrupting" competition through little more than willingness to make negative profit margins on each sale, that competition ends up just as screwed if their pockets aren't as deep. Either if way they're spending money on making you poorer rather than themselves richer in the short term it's…

As an aside, I'd like to add this bit of information: People get up in arms when a large "corporation" or "well-established player" in the market throws their capital weight around to bud out budding investors by selling at a loss. But, as you can see in this thread, they turnaround and have a completely different take on the matter when it's a "VC-backed startup" using its newly-acquired capital to drown out competition while it's slowly losing money.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#37

Post by spacemanmatt »

grey-area wrote: post #30
Throwaway823 wrote: post #22

Slightly different, but I had a user attempt to get my AdSense account banned by repeatedly clicking ads for days. Sadly, for the advertisers, Google didn't do a thing. This user racked up close to 10,000 clicks, my earnings skyrocketed for a day or two, and I contacted Google with clear evidence pointing to a particular IP address, and explained the situation in-depth with server logs. This was submitted through the…

Because they have a monopoly on advertising it's not really in their interest any more to detect click fraud.

They do not hold a monopoly on advertising. They hold the majority of the business, for now, but the structure of how and why they have that business is not monopolistic.

Source: Dearth of legal action from competitors or DOJ. And make no mistake -- their competitors are litigious as fuck.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#38

Post by spacemanmatt »

bsaul wrote: post #34

People complain a lot about Google here, but some people working in the business for a while will remember the miva ad network. Boy was that network ugly. Sometimes during the month you would see a bump of traffic of 100x magnitude on all customers and of course no conversion at all. We used to say "looks like miva needs some cash this month". Google adwords/adsense didn't win by being a monopoly, they won because th…

This. Exactly. Google enjoys a natural monopoly (or in my view, a non-monopoly) in search because they continue to earn the most business there, not because they have eliminated viable alternatives.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#39

Post by spacemanmatt »

zo1 wrote: post #36
notahacker wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst most VCs aren't doing anything anywhere near as patently unethical as funding a Clickfraud-as-a-Service app, if they're "disrupting" competition through little more than willingness to make negative profit margins on each sale, that competition ends up just as screwed if their pockets aren't as deep. Either if way they're spending money on making you poorer rather than themselves richer in the short term it's…

As an aside, I'd like to add this bit of information: People get up in arms when a large "corporation" or "well-established player" in the market throws their capital weight around to bud out budding investors by selling at a loss. But, as you can see in this thread, they turnaround and have a completely different take on the matter when it's a "VC-backed startup" using its newly-acquired capital to drown out competi…

This is why we need anti-trust law. There are cases where throwing your capital around is appropriate, and there are cases where it is anti-competitive.

Re: Service drains competitor's Adwords budget

#40

Post by zapu »

iancarroll wrote: post #32
rogerdpack wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you actually got paid for those clicks? That is bizarre, I would have thought that google had some system to automatically detect the "click fraudsters" and not charge for their clicks...I mean how hard is it to stop counting clicks after somebody's done it 5 times or so from the same site? But I guess google is actually making money from those fraudsters [since they charge the advertisers] so...maybe that's why…

They care about fraud. That is a VERY rare case of an advertiser getting paid from fraud. I have been banned (intentionally) by their system and it is very clever at times. Create a few accounts and see how far you get to $100.

How do you "create a few accounts"? I was under impression that once they ban you, it's over. Same person can't create more than one account. And can't create another one after a ban.
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