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No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

polygon.com

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Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#101

Post by JamesArgo »

Jemaclus wrote: post #31

I read articles like this, and I think to myself, "Damn, I'm glad I'm not one of those guys." Then every time I see a photo of Marissa Mayer, I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought instead of something more equal like, "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch. But no, if it's a woman, my…

This is an example of useless guilt. Strive to blind yourself when there are consequences of your bias, otherwise acknowledge it. Beauty leaks into our perceptions of all other personal qualitative - both men and women are affected by it. Short of brain-modifcation, you will find it impossible to disregard beauty so don't feel guilty about it. And don't think "I'm glad I'm not one of those guys." Women are just as afflicted by "lookism" as Ted Chaing called it. Men and woman are people. People suck.

There are other biases like "force of personality bias", too, where we assume charisma is heavily correlated with correctness, which isn't necessarily true. In terms of solutions, things like blinded hiring and internal prediction markets might help mitigate these. However, if we are going to experience beauty and charm we have to accept the fact that these qualities will affect our opinions of those who possess them. There's no way around this without changing the nature of our perceptions of these phenomena, and thus the phenomena themselves.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#102

Post by [deleted] »

Geekette wrote: post #86
Geekette wrote: post #41

These are the sorts of issues that make one wish anonymity online was impossible or always traceable. The cowardice that lives in people is astounding. For those muttering the free speech line: freedom of speech ≠ freedom of consequences.

Not sure why I'm being downvoted for wishing for an environment where people wouldn't be able to send rape/death threats anonymously and responding to the comment (now deleted) that defended such threats as free speech.

[deleted]

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#103

Post by scotty79 »

Geekette wrote: post #86
Geekette wrote: post #41

These are the sorts of issues that make one wish anonymity online was impossible or always traceable. The cowardice that lives in people is astounding. For those muttering the free speech line: freedom of speech ≠ freedom of consequences.

Not sure why I'm being downvoted for wishing for an environment where people wouldn't be able to send rape/death threats anonymously and responding to the comment (now deleted) that defended such threats as free speech.

Maybe people just don't like to be prosecuted for what they say?

Besides there are trolls that happily ignore their own anonymity.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#104

Post by oldmanjay »

samirmenon wrote: post #65
Jemaclus wrote: post #31

I read articles like this, and I think to myself, "Damn, I'm glad I'm not one of those guys." Then every time I see a photo of Marissa Mayer, I think, "Damn, she's hot." And then I hate myself for making that my first thought instead of something more equal like, "Damn, she's accomplished and brilliant" like I do when I see a photo of Robert Downey Jr or Idris Elba or Benedict Cumberbatch. But no, if it's a woman, my…

I don't know, I'm gay, and when I see a picture of Benedict Cumberbatch or Robert Downey Jr, I certainly don't think "Damn, he's accomplished and brilliant"; I think "Damn, he's hot!"

When I see a picture of Benedict Cumberbatch, I think "he looks awfully pinched. He might need more fiber."

I'm straight. Not sure what impact that has.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#105

Post by avz »

> "When a woman criticizes me, it goes to a different part of my brain than when a man on my team does. I get defensive really quickly."

This point isn't stressed enough. Majority of people treat criticism differently depending on the gender of the source. Other types of interaction are also hugely dependent on gender. We even refer to each other with different pronouns depending on the type of sexual organs our bodies are equipped with. This isn't right.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#106

Post by Steko »

Zikes wrote: post #26

This is the sort of journalism I would expect to find on Jezebel, rather than Polygon. Filled with us vs. them mentality: no man can understand, men all think this, men always tell us that. Men never deal with harassment, death threats, or rape threats. Well, here's a little variation on Hitchens' Razor: what can be proven with anecdotal evidence can be dismissed with anecdotal evidence. http://www.edge-online.com/fe…

Am I wrong that this would have been the top upvoted comment on HN 5 years ago? If so maybe that counts as a tiny bit of progress/small strides. Or maybe this will be the top voted when I come back later, /sigh...

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#107

Post by rafaelCosman »

"Footnote: Two of the names of women that agreed to interviews for this article were changed at their request."

It's telling (about the state of the industry) that two of these women felt uncomfortable sharing their names even while interviewing for an article about this very topic.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#109

Post by gknoy »

Jemaclus wrote: post #68
EarthLaunch wrote: post #6

What should a game studio to do counter this and make its employees safe from it?

I think the best thing to do as far as internal harassment goes is to basically have a no tolerance policy from the higher-ups. Not so much a "you'll get fired" thing but having everyone step up and say "Hey, that's not cool" when someone makes a sexist joke. At my job, we had a guy for awhile who would post funny pictures in chat. Every once in awhile, he'd post something NSFW (not necessarily nudity) and all the gu…

Great point. I know that when I see mildly inappropriate, my first reaction is to laugh, even if it's not always the right reaction.

My kids are at the age where they make poop and fart jokes, and I confess that I find them funny. I fear I will always find them funny. I am unable to be upset when my kids swear -- even if I don't think they should be using those particular words. (Was there ever a more sincere expression of three year old frustration than when you overhear them saying, "Fucking _bummer_"?)

But, at work, it feels like there's a different line. The things I would laugh at if I saw them on my Facebook feed (linked by ladies or men) would make me uncomfortable to encounter at work. The mild "so to speak" banter, or the (non-sexual) mild harassment that men and women friends have had has always been funny, but I feel weird when I hear it at work. My inner dialog is usually, "I'm not offended, but ... is that okay? Are we allowed to joke about ... ?"

I tend to listen a lot more than I speak at work, as you can probably tell. ;)

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#110

Post by ikt »

revscat wrote: post #5
[deleted] wrote: post #2

[deleted]

FTA: > "Women are the niggers of gender," the email said. "If you killed yourself, I wouldn’t even fuck the corpse." You're ok with that? We should just expect the target of that email to "get over it?" No.

I would, I'm almost certain I'd probably have a laugh as well...

"I wouldn’t even fuck the corpse"

"Good! Leave my corpse alone you fucking nutter"

But apparently I've got thick skin that according to the article women can't acquire.

"I blinked at my phone, fighting simultaneous urges to hurl my phone across the room in anger and cry."

I'd be saying seriously? Why does what some low IQ retard on the other side of the Internet say about you affect you so much?

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