No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry • Hacker News Board

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#21

Post by eli » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 4:29 PM UTC

cheez wrote: post #17

> I lead a development studio that makes games. Sometimes, I write about issues in the games industry that relate to the equality of women. My reward is that I regularly have men threatening to rape and commit acts of violence against me. My suspicion is that she is not threatened because she leads a development studio, but because she is a writer. She's not asking for it, but she is making herself a public figure an…

I get what you're saying... but I think you're getting downvoted because it's dangerously close to victim-blaming. No matter what they wrote, nobody ever deserves graphic threats of rape and murder.

And, c'mon, by your definition pretty much anyone with an internet presence and an opinion is a public figure, and therefore a "target." I don't think that's a helpful way to approach the problem.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#22

Post by falcolas » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 4:30 PM UTC

EarthLaunch wrote: post #6

What should a game studio to do counter this and make its employees safe from it?

Perhaps hire fewer employees right out of college for crap salaries, and foster an environment where senior employees with families can work?

There is simply very little diversity in applicants who apply for videogame jobs, and if your entire employee base is comprised solely of these applicants, it's going to become an echo chamber.

The people who would not stand for this type of behavior are typically not those who would stand for 80+ hours a week of work at $25,000 salaries.

Build a diverse employment environment with your employees spanning the spectrum in terms of both age and gender, and the problems will become more and more self-righting.

As an anecdote, the only environment where that kind of inter-personal discussion was reinforced and accepted was one where the majority of employees were just out of college. Every other company where the majority of employees are over 30 has not tolerated this behavior at the employee level.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#23

Post by hnnewguy » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 4:30 PM UTC

revscat wrote: post #5

[deleted] wrote: post #2

[deleted]

FTA: > "Women are the niggers of gender," the email said. "If you killed yourself, I wouldn’t even fuck the corpse." You're ok with that? We should just expect the target of that email to "get over it?" No.

>You're ok with that? We should just expect the target of that email to "get over it?"

Some idiotic person anonymously typed something idiotic. In that case, yes, you're best to "get over it". There are many things in the world I'm not okay with. But it's pointless to froth at the mouth over what some (likely) adolescent boy typed on the internet.

On the other hand, if someone is making real-life threats to your person, go to the police.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#24

Post by falcolas » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 4:31 PM UTC

orf wrote: post #18

It's depressing that the first few top level comments here have been deleted due to their ridiculous content, people presumably read the article then decided to post things like "its banter, get over it. Men deal with it all the time". Just shows how deep the problem goes I guess.

The first few top level comments were from one or two people; green accounts at that. I don't attribute their malice to this community at large, or even as a representation of any remotely reasonable community.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#25

Post by sp332 » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 4:31 PM UTC

orf wrote: post #18

It's depressing that the first few top level comments here have been deleted due to their ridiculous content, people presumably read the article then decided to post things like "its banter, get over it. Men deal with it all the time". Just shows how deep the problem goes I guess.

The article is about case studies, but sometimes it helps to get some numbers too. e.g. "Accounts with feminine usernames incurred an average of 100 sexually explicit or threatening messages a day. Masculine names received 3.7." http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/women-ar...

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#26

Post by Zikes » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 4:33 PM UTC

This is the sort of journalism I would expect to find on Jezebel, rather than Polygon.

Filled with us vs. them mentality: no man can understand, men all think this, men always tell us that. Men never deal with harassment, death threats, or rape threats. Well, here's a little variation on Hitchens' Razor: what can be proven with anecdotal evidence can be dismissed with anecdotal evidence.

http://www.edge-online.com/features/toxic-games-community-co...

http://i.imgur.com/HBxSZBF.jpg

The worst of it is, one paragraph opens with "Women in the industry are told by men what is valid for us to feel." and only a scant few paragraphs later is an entire article written by a woman telling men how they should act and feel. Part of which is "so great" that it deserved to be made into an "inspirational poster". Everyone thinks what they have to say is inherently valuable, I'm pretty sure that's a major component of the human condition.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#27

Post by Iftheshoefits » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 4:33 PM UTC

jarin wrote: post #20

I would argue that men don't get rape threats because most men don't see rape as a realistic threat to themselves. Instead, we have our masculinity, loyalty, abilities, work ethic, and/or integrity attacked, because those are the things that cut us to the core. I'm not saying that women don't care about those things, I'm just saying that when someone is trying to be a dick they're going to go after the lowest hanging…

There is a nontrivial difference between the modes of attack you note that work better on men and those that work better on women to achieve a psychological impact. The difference is significant--for women, the difference is a matter of (literally) being physically assaulted or even killed. Men face that kind of threat far less from attacks against our masculinity, loyalty, etc.

The article notes this. Women shouldn't be expected to distance themselves from a very real threat of physical violence, which men simply don't face to anything close to the same degree.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#28

Post by sp332 » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 4:33 PM UTC

cheez wrote: post #17

> I lead a development studio that makes games. Sometimes, I write about issues in the games industry that relate to the equality of women. My reward is that I regularly have men threatening to rape and commit acts of violence against me. My suspicion is that she is not threatened because she leads a development studio, but because she is a writer. She's not asking for it, but she is making herself a public figure an…

She's not threatened because she's a writer, she's threatened because some people in the community are abusive and law enforcement hasn't stepped up and done its job.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#29

Post by arrrg » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 4:34 PM UTC

jarin wrote: post #20

I would argue that men don't get rape threats because most men don't see rape as a realistic threat to themselves. Instead, we have our masculinity, loyalty, abilities, work ethic, and/or integrity attacked, because those are the things that cut us to the core. I'm not saying that women don't care about those things, I'm just saying that when someone is trying to be a dick they're going to go after the lowest hanging…

I do see women’s femininity (or lack of masculinity, actually!), loyalty, especially abilities, work ethic and/or integrity attacked all the time. I don’t really understand why you are under the impression that doesn’t happen to women. The objectification and threats of (sexual) violence happen in addition to that.

Again, you seem to argue that there is some kind of balance in harassment and both men and women receive the same amount. That is not true at all.

Re: No skin thick enough: The daily harassment of women in the game industry

#30

Post by coldtea » Tue, Jul 22, 2014, 4:34 PM UTC

orf wrote: post #18

It's depressing that the first few top level comments here have been deleted due to their ridiculous content, people presumably read the article then decided to post things like "its banter, get over it. Men deal with it all the time". Just shows how deep the problem goes I guess.

>"its banter, get over it. Men deal with it all the time". Just shows how deep the problem goes I guess.

Why, isn't it true? I mean, if one's going to argue one is much worse than the other, then some citation is needed.

Empirically, men don't (usually) get rape threats. But they do get death threats. And they don't usually get sexual comments on their looks. But they do get comments that they're "fat", "dorky", "idiots" etc. And the classic "gay" comments.