No Russian • Hacker News Board

Re: No Russian

#51

Post by xor-ed-wolf » Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 9:05 AM UTC

x4m wrote: post #43

egao1980 wrote: post #36

This is one of the typical rants by Russian immigrant who enjoyed top quality free education in USSR/Russia which made his success possible (+ no student loans), left during turmoil of 1990-2000s and still judging Russia on that bad memories basis. Article is full of clichés and gives general FOX news feel while reading. I lived in Moscow in 2011 and I'm part of that creative class he mentions and no one in my social…

Confirm that. I'm from Yekaterinburg, and Max rant seems to me just exagerated imagination of someone who haven't been here for decade.

It's easy to understand the author's hidden sentiment that Russia is very ineffective state currently and depends too much on natural resources export and enforcement. But what bothers me most is that all of those former Russian immigrants sit in their comfortable chairs somewhere in Nebraska and yapping endlessly while not giving a sparrow's effort to research the actual situation and suggest anything to improve it. Instead they spread xenophobia and popularize knee-jerk reactions to events. I.e. they're just hatred-filled idiots who waste our time on reading them.

Re: No Russian

#52

Post by homhomhom » Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 9:11 AM UTC

baddox wrote: post #28

piroflip wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Summing all the evidence, I would say this was a mistake shot down too.

But presumably not a situation where the attackers mistakenly thought they were shooting down an aircraft that was about to attack them.

They definitely thought it was an Ukrainian military transport plane. I don't see how the distinction between enemy military transport plane and enemy fighter/bomber is of any importance here.

Re: No Russian

#53

Post by xor-ed-wolf » Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 9:18 AM UTC

timurtamerlan wrote: post #38

Complete and total bullshit, based on US propaganda against Russia. I live in Russia and build my second IT business here. Most of my friends are entrepreneurs from Moscow and other cities. Of course there is corruption, autocracy and alcoholism. It is there for several hundreds of years, and we have to deal with that. But situation is actually getting better with time. You can't change loves of millions of people in…

It's confirmation bias at work. People often can't control their "reptilian brain" effectively. Having some superfluous idea they only find confirmations to it all around all worse if they are emotionally unstable at the moment.

Re: No Russian

#54

Post by nazgob » Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 9:21 AM UTC

egao1980 wrote: post #50

jwr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and yet it is a quite accurate portrayal of the current situation in Russia. I should know - I'm Polish and my country was annexed by Russia on several occasions. I would add that the western EU countries seem to have learned nothing from history. Trying to appease a country with ambitions to become an empire, that annexes neighboring countries -- let's see, haven't we seen that before?

And if we are going back to the times of Polish annexation we can remember Polish people robbing Russia, burning Moscow, trying to put Polish dude on the throne and best part - exploitation of Ukrainians :). And yes, Poland is also known for imperial ambitions. Generally European history is full of wars and mutual blame. Take UK for example - conquered by French and ruled by German dynasty. So once again, please, sto…

That's what we're doing. But Russia again started changing borders of our neighbor. This is scary stuff.

Re: No Russian

#55

Post by xor-ed-wolf » Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 9:23 AM UTC

jakozaur wrote: post #9

iliaznk wrote: post #3

As much as most of it may be true, Russia's fault in the Malaysian plane shoot-down hasn't been proved, even the crash site hasn't been examined properly, isn't it too early for such conclusions?

It wasn't proved, but there is not a believable alternative scenario. There are videos of transported missiles, intercepted calls, orders of obstructing access to crash site... John Kerry even says there is "Enormous amount of evidence" for that scenario. Still not 100% sure, but 99% yes.

It can be a conspiracy by Ukraine's government (with some possible help from some foreign intelligence advisors) to discredit pro-Russian faction. Or idiots in pro-Russian faction that didn't confirm or were mislead about the target (like someone falsely hinting them about the plane) before shooting it down. I wonder why all those people state it as if they know the truth already. If it is not propaganda at work then I don't know what is.

Re: No Russian

#56

Post by nazgob » Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 9:23 AM UTC

spingsprong wrote: post #32

Can anyone seriously think of a reason why Ukraine, the Rebels or Russia would have downed that passenger plane on purpose? Because I can't. Whoever shot it down, obviously thought it was a military aircraft. They made a mistake. If it's a mistake, it's not murder.

If you operate AA unit without knowledge how to detect civilian planes its a bit more then mistake.

Re: No Russian

#57

Post by egao1980 » Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 9:24 AM UTC

songco wrote: post #34

At least facebook/twitter/github/most google services not blocked in Russian....

Living in UK I can say that something is terribly wrong with freedom of speech and objectivity of mass media - Russian media reports all possible scenarios, blames Putin, Ukraine, rebels, but UK press is all focused on blaming Russia. Where's the alternative? UK media is free to blame Russia? Remember that Russian gay propaganda ban? So much noise, and at the same time Saudi Arabia executes gay people and there's no USA/UK campaign against it.

Re: No Russian

#58

Post by xor-ed-wolf » Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 9:28 AM UTC

gothy wrote: post #40

quaunaut wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, it wasn't intentional. They seem to have thought they were attacking a Ukrainian military plane. There wasn't any strategy in this.

So hitting Ukrainian planes is OK? There wasn't any kind of terrorists that I'm aware of who got access to such a sophisticated weapons. And no one of those 'monkeys' could even handle with that 'BUK'. It's obvious that only trained army team could make this launch and it's obvious for us(Ukrainians here) that after brutal annexation of Crimea , this sick freak wont stop until he gets punched in the face. He doesn't…

Ukraine is a failed state otherwise there shouldn't be incentive to start cruel and poorly planned revolt like Euromaidan in the first place.

Re: No Russian

#59

Post by xor-ed-wolf » Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 9:30 AM UTC

jbb555 wrote: post #35

quaunaut wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, it wasn't intentional. They seem to have thought they were attacking a Ukrainian military plane. There wasn't any strategy in this.

So they murdered the wrong people?

So do you think any war is a playground where they decide the outcome with a chess game?

Re: No Russian

#60

Post by epsylon » Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 9:31 AM UTC

terranstyler wrote: post #37

I have quite a few problems with Western media stating that it's Putin's fault. - There is a lack of motive (seriously why would he?) - There is a lack of identity (if it were the Separatists, are they really controlled by Putin to that degree?) - The murder weapon happens to also be in the hand of the Ukrainian army (19 systems, 3 of them stationed in the range of the crash site) [2] - The Ukrainian air control obvi…

> lack of motive

It was most likely a mistake.

> There is a lack of identity (if it were the Separatists, are they really controlled by Putin to that degree?)

Top members of the rebels group, including the leader, are Russian citizens and former members of the FSB.

http://20committee.com/2014/07/19/donetsk-rebels-and-russian...

> The murder weapon happens to also be in the hand of the Ukrainian army (19 systems, 3 of them stationed in the range of the crash site) [2]

If the Ukrainians were responsible, why are the rebels trying to cover up all the traces and why are they interfering with the international investigation? (Also, the source you quote is from Russian media, which are inherently biased, much more so than the multiple other sources whose evidence points towards Russia-backed rebels)