Just execute Floyd–Warshall algorithm for transitive closure :)
The Middle East Friendship Chart
61–70 of 100 posts
Re: The Middle East Friendship Chart
#62The chart highlights one big problem - how on earth do you label each faction? On the one hand, it includes whole countries, yet many have powerful factions within them that have vastly different views. On the other hand, some countries are ignored entirely (where is Lebanon? There are more factions there than just the included Hezbollah). Since they added the US, it might be helpful to stick Russia (and perhaps Chin…
Especially Russia. They are not a minor player in the area as evidenced by the Syria conflict.
Re: The Middle East Friendship Chart
#63The chart is over simplification and lacks any depth for such relationships, for example, Jordan and Saudi, both friendly with Israel and have been funding ISIS, yet there is no mention of Jordan, Qatar too, too tiny yet playing a very big role in this mess, not there at all. The main player in all relationship in the middle east is the US and Israel, the rest is not much.
Exactly.
The lack of note of some of the original funding sources for ISIS makes me regard the chart as bogus and maybe even misleading.
There are groups who don't want to see Iran (nor Russia for that matter) grow any more powerful in the region, and these are defiantly somewhat happy about the emergence of ISIS if not also surreptitiously supporting them. Putting these countries as frowny on the chart is not really very accurate even if they profess disdain in public (which they politically have to for an outlaw group like this). I hope the US is not in this group but wouldn't swear they are not. At minimum, some of the "friends" of the US are in this group.
The absence of Russia on the chart is another reason not to take it very seriously. Overall.... this is like a 4'th grade view of alliances in the mid-east. Not really very useful.
Re: The Middle East Friendship Chart
#64Could someone explain the first couple of principal components of this conflict to a historically illiterate like me?
Israel, Oil, Shia vs Sunni conflict, US ambitions, old school dictators vs democratic movements vs religious fundamentalists. I think that covers most things, except Turkey. Turkey has a whole secular vs religious plus embrace Europe and the West vs embrace the Middle East thing going on. Basically a short summary is difficult because the history is enormous and intertwined.
Proxy wars among larger powers.
Syria demonstrates this principal most clearly. It's the US (or the West if you prefer) vs Russia for controlling influence in the region.
Re: The Middle East Friendship Chart
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really. Let's say that Erdogan and ISIS agree on goals, absolutely not on means, and Erdogan stands to lose a LOT if ISIS doesn't back down. They are not enemies, even if you have a point that they're absolutely not friends either. You're right of course that Lebanon hasn't been very stable.
You think Erdogan wants an Wahhabist caliphate centered in Bagdad that claims parts of Turkey? Not likely! I'm trying to imagine what goals they share? I guess Turkey probably doesn't want an Iranian-dominated Iraq (and nor does ISIS of course!), but Turkey can probably accept that to some degree provided Iraqi Kurdistan remains autonomous and provides a buffer zone. Beyond that I can't see anything they really have…
Of course not. I think he wants the ottoman empire back. He wants a non-wahhabist (but still quite strict) caliphate centered in constantinople. Most of all he wants the basic property of the caliphate : a theocracy.
He has, after, said exactly that. Cost him votes, but not enough.
As I said, he's quite sympathetic with what they're doing, he's doing the same. He's just behaving like any Ottoman vasal did a mere 100 years ago. He agrees with the need for a caliphate, probably even with the method. He just disagrees on the caliph and the capital. Like any ottoman vasal, tough, he sees them as competition as well as potential allies.
Re: The Middle East Friendship Chart
#66It would be interesting to find the "basis vectors" of issues, if you will, underpinning this matrix. They seem to be: Israel-Palestinians, Syria's Civil War, Egypt's Overthrow, and the new Iraqi state. So, if the issues would be resolved in the most peaceful way, namely: Egypt's current government continuing to exist Israel and Palestinian Authority defeating Hamas and working towards a peace deal Iraq getting stabl…
Hamas won free and fair elections. Peace must come from negotiations with Hamas; it can't be predicated on their destruction.
Well, yeah, except for the slight part about how they're a terrorist organisation?
I mean, the Quarter (the Quartet (United States, Russia, United Nations, and European Union) basically said, we can recognise you, but you have to commit to non-violence etc.
And Hamas was like, no, screw you guys, we're going to keep rocketing and bombing all the civilians we like...I mean, Israel's going to cave eventually, if we keep shooting rockets at their citizens, right?
Re: The Middle East Friendship Chart
#67lol! ISIS has no friends at all
Ya they do. Some very powerful ones. Or else they never would have been allowed to get to the point they are at now.
If they get big enough they will get a haircut. They won't be allowed to actually rule for long probably. But as long as they keep causing trouble for the enemies of enemies they might be allowed to keep taking over caches of weapons (whoop!..but hey, we aren't arming terrorists! they just stole them!).
Re: The Middle East Friendship Chart
#68TL;DR everyone pretty much hates everyone else.
Re: The Middle East Friendship Chart
#69This chart is at the very least incomplete and inaccurate if not blatantly false. To accuse Iran of cooperating with Al Qaeda while claiming that Saudi Arabia does not is audacious. Saudi Arabia spreads the most violent branch of Islam (Wahhabism/Salafism) through indoctrination as well as direct funding for terrorism. Just look at the perpetrators of 9/11, all of whom were Sunni Arabs, most of them from Saudi Arabia…
Even I can say you're totally wrong already in the first claims.
Al Qaida has/had quite a bit of popular support in Saudi Arabia -- AND the explicit goal to overthrow the Saudi royal family. If you check history, that is what makes you top-of-the-list to most any dictatorial junta!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Qaeda_in_Saudi_Arabia#Ideolo...
"Like al-Qaeda, it opposes the Al Saud monarchy.[8] AQAP was formed in January 2009 from a merger of al Qaeda's Yemeni and Saudi branches.[1] The Saudi group had been effectively suppressed by the Saudi government, forcing its members to seek sanctuary in Yemen."
I write this because I want to point out:
It is disgustingly dishonest to blame a country for what a dozen individuals do, like you do with the 9/11 terrorists. If we allow that "reasoning", how should the world judge all Muslims considering the millions of murders/rapes/etc in Sudan? (At least those Muslims from the large part of the Muslim world where the criticism about [Sudan's violations of] human rights is ignored or claimed to be a western conspiracy.)
Re: The Middle East Friendship Chart
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Either way, congratulations to Slate for reducing politics in the Middle East to three types of smileys. Their readers must love that kind of stuff.
Simplification is a good thing. And the middle east desperately needs some. Sure, the foreign ministries of the world shouldn't use this chart, but that's not really the audience here.
I disagree. After more than a decade of "good vs. evil" and "either with us or with the enemy" propaganda, what the audience needs is the precise opposite of this type of chart.