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Tell HN: Take vacation

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Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#111

Post by michaelochurch »

nicolethenerd wrote: post #68
michaelochurch wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Brazil and got curious about the "unlimited vacation", how it works? The U.S. is the only advanced economy without a vacation floor. (To join the EU, 20 days is the lower limit.) Three weeks is typical for an average job (but some companies are sleazy and pool sick time and vacation under "PTO") and two for a crap job. It's surprising how reliably you can predict the quality of a company and job based on vac…

Honestly curious, what is the alternative to PTO? I don't see why this is such a bad thing - you get X days off, you can use them for whatever reason you want - sick or vacation - as long as X is a reasonable number, what's the issue here?

1. Companies implement those policies to inflate their vacation policies. In the negotiation phase, candidates don't ask, "do you mean 15 days of vacation, or is it that shitty thing where sick days are pooled with vacation?"

2. It gives people an incentive to come into the office sick. The result is that half the office is ill (but showing up!) all winter. It's pretty disgusting.

If you're trying to build a polar vortex of disease, then implement a pooled PTO system. If you're trying to build a company, then don't. It's that simple. What are you trying to build?

Here's how I would set it up:

* Three weeks minimum vacation. (Investment banks have mandatory vacation and it's not a bad policy.) In tech, that wouldn't be a hard-and-set rule, but taking little vacation should be the choice that needs to be justified. Five weeks paid, anything beyond that is unpaid leave which can be taken without stigma.

* Don't come in if you're sick. It happens to all of us. If you're going to lose more than 10 days per year to health issues, talk to HR about accommodation and we'll try to make something work. If it's less than 10 days (e.g. colds and flus and stomach bugs) then just stay home.

* Don't worry about emergent personal issues. Let people know where you're going, then go. Come to work when you're ready to concentrate on work, not when you have nonsense hanging over your head.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#112

Post by kordless »

wizzard wrote: post #59
kordless wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you had a bad experience. Coding brings me joy now and I would never intentionally bring suffering to people helping me see a common goal brought to fruition. While I don't like ruling by democracy, ruling with EMPATHY is a requirement. What are you thinking about working on now?

The most frustrating thing about the slippage is that you couldn't really point to anything as the reason it happened. It wasn't just "poor management" or "poor effort" or "changing specs". I still can't satisfactorily answer WHY. Actually I wonder if the whole team wasn't burned out before we even started. I haven't figured out what direction I want to go this time. If I want to be more contractor-ish I might go for…

Sometimes projects are just meh. Happens. And, just in case you get an itch for hacking on something cool again: http://github.com/stackmonkey/. :)

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#113

Post by chrismcb »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #104
joedrew wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having people's sick days deduct from their vacation is an incentive to go to work when you're sick, jeopardizing the health (and productivity) of the team. A much better solution is vacation days and unlimited sick days, as well as generous work-from-home opportunities for days when you're under the weather but not too sick to work.

The supposition here is that it's very unfair to impose a professional cost on getting sick. I don't see it that way. I see people getting sick because they take lousy care of themselves. They're fat and eat lousy food. Also, they make various idiotic stressful choices like having a 1hr commute, or putting a kid in some germ infested day care. People who do not make such choices rarely get sick for more than the odd…

Not only do you still have the few odd suck days but you might also have Kids that get sick. If you use up all your vacation time then you can't take any sick days

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#114

Post by CalRobert »

maccard wrote: post #49
CalRobert wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct, it's Ireland. As far as visa restrictions go it seems to be somewhere between extremely difficult UK and relatively simple Germany. Cost is all relative, I guess. Pay is lower than SF, but I also am paying less than half of what I would for my apartment. Given that I was spending a lot of money to take what vacation I could in Europe anyway I actually save a good deal on vacation budget this way too.…

> but I also am paying less than half of what I would for my apartment. Out of curiosity (I understand if you don't want to say) but roughly how much are you paying for your apartment, and how close to the city is it? I'm paying almost 1500 USD for my 2bed apt not far from the city centre, and the landlord is increasing the rent in September (I'm leaving anyway). The saving of ~500 dollars per month I would imagine d…

No problem; it's useful information. €800 (about $1080 at the moment), and next to Dublin castle, for a 1 bedroom apt in an old building with quirky plumbing. As I mentioned, it's not the fanciest area, but it suits me nicely. Bull and Castle is nearby and has a nice array of craft beers too. Work is less than 10 minute's walk away. A place like this in SF close to the office, tourist attractions, and not terribly high crime would be $2 grand+, I think. Something like this: http://www.padmapper.com/show.php?source=3&id=193107035&src=...

I'm not sure what $500 per month you refer to, but I'm guessing transportation costs. I have generally preferred living in places that didn't require owning a car, and find it makes a huge difference. I was in Berkeley for a while, and Santa Monica after that. Note that in Santa Monica I found it necessary to share a car with the gf; You can get around SM fine with a bicycle but LA remains a desolate suburban hellscape.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#115

Post by peterjancelis »

zrail wrote: post #84

In the last two years I've * gotten cancer * gone through surgery and chemotherapy * beaten cancer * watched my stepfather die of cancer * wrote and self-published a book * gotten married earlier than planned * moved across the country * watched my mother-in-law die of cancer (why we got married early) * bought a house * gotten married again on our original date In that time I have been away from work for quite a bit…

Can you cut some expenses in a way that doesn't lower your self-perceived standard of living too much? see www.mrmoneymustache.com for inspiration.

You seem to have a lot of resilience, so using more of your income to buy more time should be an easy feat for you. Especially with the life perspective I am sure you gained from going through all that.

Whatever you do, good luck.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#116

Post by dllthomas »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #104
joedrew wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having people's sick days deduct from their vacation is an incentive to go to work when you're sick, jeopardizing the health (and productivity) of the team. A much better solution is vacation days and unlimited sick days, as well as generous work-from-home opportunities for days when you're under the weather but not too sick to work.

The supposition here is that it's very unfair to impose a professional cost on getting sick. I don't see it that way. I see people getting sick because they take lousy care of themselves. They're fat and eat lousy food. Also, they make various idiotic stressful choices like having a 1hr commute, or putting a kid in some germ infested day care. People who do not make such choices rarely get sick for more than the odd…

I'm not sure it's "very unfair to impose a professional cost on getting sick" but we don't have a way to measure whether people are sick other than self reporting until they are way past infectious, so you're not punishing getting sick but rather reporting that you are sick, and thus encouraging under reporting, which leads to everyone getting sick more.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#117

Post by npsimons »

superplussed wrote: post #55
npsimons wrote: post #46

I just took a weeklong backpack trip. Sure, getting out for an overnight on the weekend is fun, but there's something that happens after more than a couple of nights on the trail. You forget what day it is. You lose track of time, and it doesn't matter because your only responsibilities are 1) hike to your next camp 2) setup camp 3) make dinner. No email, no action item lists, nothing but the freedom to think about n…

Where were you backpacking? This sounds alot like Nepal, where I've been for the last 2 months on a kind of workcation.

Sierra Nevada.

An interesting follow up that just occurred to me: there was a surge in PCT (Pacific Crest Trail) through hikers back during the dot-com bust. The theory was that lots of unattached moderately wealthy suddenly jobless young people took advantage of the situation. Since it does take something like 6 months and about $7k (USD), it's something that I've never done and feel like maybe I missed my opportunity when I was laid off. The younger and less attached you are, the better, so just consider that the next time you are between jobs. Of course, there's also other super long trails (AT, PNT, GET, etc) to take your pick from.

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#119

Post by jackweirdy »

dm2 wrote: post #82
andrewd18 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick, before you go, write two scripts and corresponding cron jobs that convert tabs to N spaces, or N spaces to tabs. Then, set them up to commit to your favorite repo on alternating days. Now you can enjoy your vacation while pissing off your fellow contributors at the same time!

Spaces to tabs please.

So you can convert them back again, right?

Re: Tell HN: Take vacation

#120

Post by zrail »

peterjancelis wrote: post #115
zrail wrote: post #84

In the last two years I've * gotten cancer * gone through surgery and chemotherapy * beaten cancer * watched my stepfather die of cancer * wrote and self-published a book * gotten married earlier than planned * moved across the country * watched my mother-in-law die of cancer (why we got married early) * bought a house * gotten married again on our original date In that time I have been away from work for quite a bit…

Can you cut some expenses in a way that doesn't lower your self-perceived standard of living too much? see www.mrmoneymustache.com for inspiration. You seem to have a lot of resilience, so using more of your income to buy more time should be an easy feat for you. Especially with the life perspective I am sure you gained from going through all that. Whatever you do, good luck.

Thank you for the recommendation. I've been devouring MMM since you posted and I've already made a few changes to bring spending down.
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