Although there are real world programming jobs out there that dont require deep mathematical knowledge i would be very sceptical about the programming skills of a person that has difficulties actually learning math.
Programming is not math
81–90 of 115 posts
Re: Programming is not math
#82This article just indicates a cramped view of math and programming. Programming is math, very simply. Consider the simple Turing Machine: invented to give proofs in what we'd now call mathematical logic. Coming up with Turing machines to solve given problems is so obviously programming, that I have to suspect Ms Mei hasn't ever looked at Turing Machines. The same could be said of lambda calculus and Combinatory Logic…
P.D: A feel of several of the comments here, so is not exactly directed at the parent. Look like some of the defense in the idea of programming is math is reduced at: With math you can be more efficient at solving X task. That, itself, is proof that programming is NOT math, instead is a tool (like always is) that could enhance it. But the fact that developers ignore the math-y aspects of it and sill ship code show th…
I'm not getting at "with math you can solve task X with efficiency". I'm getting at "even if you have a stunted view of math, you're still doing math by programming". I gave examples to the effect that if you don't understand math, and you believe "programming is not math", you'll be puzzled by your inability to perform tasks that when viewed as math, are known to be impossible, and you'll end up with false-to-fact views of what's lamentably called "software engineering".
Re: Programming is not math
#83MATH IS ALSO LANGUAGE. Just because we've mostly standardized on a few notations doesn't mean that we couldn't have generally chosen to do things entirely differently, or that we couldn't have had as many common ways to express the same mathematical idea as we have computer languages, a variety of sets of mathematical rules to convert between them in more or less efficient ways, or to make the idea being expressed am…
The article isn't making a silly distinction. The conclusion the article is trying to refute is that Computing is Math. Your point is Math is Language. His point is Computing is Language. Dogs are animals, cats are animals, but cats aren't dogs.
So yes both Math and Computing use symbols and rules to represent things and relationships between them. But that doesn't make them the same. In computing, symbols are mostly used to represent actions to be performed by a machine which is very different from most math.
Re: Programming is not math
#84Well I suppose if you're just doing basic web programming you're not doing math. But even that (animations, etc.) can involve a ton of math. Low level programming, the programming high languages are based on, use a lot of math. Using ruby on rails is just abstracting you from the math you'd have to do if you were actually programming something hard.
This, a lot of people are confused about what programming actually is by the sheer amount of abstraction libraries. A lot of frameworks i have used i would not even class as programming any more. It's more along the lines of a markup language.
Re: Programming is not math
#85Obviously, computers and programs are machines that do logic. And as programmers we manage symbols (like mathematicians do) that help organise that logic. So I see that part of "programming is math," which a lot of people have argued.
But I don't think we're getting at the crux of the argument: that for programming well there's more of a correlation between communication (e.g., exposing a set of ideas clearly and concisely) than there is in a standard math curriculum.
Certainly, some areas of programming and computer science are very math heavy. But where are the arguments that say that knowing math makes you a better programmer in the "best practices" sense?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_coding_practices
I.e., for most programmers in the world (they're mostly applications programmers, right?), how does knowing math help them make better programs?
And what kinds of math helps them make better programs?
Re: Programming is not math
#86I've seen someone take a piece of code from 72 lines down to 3 lines by just doing some simple mathematical analysis before actually getting to refactoring. The code was also simpler, and easier to understand. Do you need math for be a good programmer? No. Does it help to know math while programming? Absolutely.
I've also seen a programmer waste 6 months on code that didn't solve the problem because he was a poor communicator and got all the requirements wrong. I don't disagree with your point but it doesn't really mean that much. A good programmer needs to be well rounded -- understand math, logic, language, human nature, etc.
If you're calculating missile trajectories; math is going to be a more important component. If you building a Facebook plugin, it's probably much less important than other skills.
Re: Programming is not math
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then there's the Molière character I can't remember from Candide who says the nose evolved so we can rest our eyeglasses.
I think you mean Pangloss, who was a parody of Leibniz in Candide who was written by Voltaire. [0] Is there some connection to Molière that I was unaware of, or was that just a brain fart? [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_all_possible_worlds#Cri...
I meant Voltaire. I'm an idiot.
Re: Programming is not math
#88I think the truth to this depends on the person and their particular motivations for wanting to learn to program jn the first place. This can be very different for different people. For example, if you want to program in order to create 3D video games with custom physics/graphics then obviously math is going to have to play a big role in that at some point or another. If your goal is programming for its own sake then math is important for you to learn theory and computer science foundations, however it seems to me that you can learn math as you learn these things. If on the other hand you just want to learn to program to customize your tumblr or even just trying to get an entry level be a web developer position then you probably won't need much math. It cant hurt though.
Re: Programming is not math
#89This article just indicates a cramped view of math and programming. Programming is math, very simply. Consider the simple Turing Machine: invented to give proofs in what we'd now call mathematical logic. Coming up with Turing machines to solve given problems is so obviously programming, that I have to suspect Ms Mei hasn't ever looked at Turing Machines. The same could be said of lambda calculus and Combinatory Logic…
"Engineering isn't mathematics. Look, I have a calculator, I punch numbers from the ANSI standards and woop the buildings stay upright. Engineering is about understanding safety laws".
Re: Programming is not math
#90In Canada many parents will enter their children in the bilingual stream, not only for the benefit of knowing another language but also because it acts as a natural filter by removing the trouble-makers and slower kids. I'm sure if she were to give a math test, she too would find correlation between language and math skills.