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Trade negotiations are more likely to be free from backlash if they are at least open. The secrecy is the biggest hindrance here.
European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA
31–40 of 100 posts
Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA
#32[deleted]
Where is the substance to your claims? The last few years has seen a constant erosion of income both in the USA and Europe.
In any case why should trade agreements cede arbitration and disputes to tribunals and panels which are not subject to public scrutiny and proper judicial and democratic oversight?
Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA
#33For those wondering what's wrong with TTIP, a while ago Geroge Monibot wrote a well documented piece about it: http://www.monbiot.com/2013/11/04/a-global-ban-on-left-wing-...
...and here's a response from Ken Clarke, a politician, defending the TTIP: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/11/eu-us-t... In short, he names the parts of the TTIP that are dangerous to democracy as "one comparatively minor element".
The rhetorical question is that if it's so minor why is so much effort being expended to try and get it in?
The answer is that it's not minor and a corner stone of the corporatism agenda.
EDIT: And his dismissing of the gutting of safety standards by using the lowest common denominator is disingenuous at best and nakedly corrupt at worst.
Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA
#34Quite funny that in Switzerland most are apparently most concerned with fractions of a percent of the economy by being left out other than other issues raised.
Source: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-face-tough-us-eu-trade-dea...
Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA
#35For those wondering what's wrong with TTIP, a while ago Geroge Monibot wrote a well documented piece about it: http://www.monbiot.com/2013/11/04/a-global-ban-on-left-wing-...
...and here's a response from Ken Clarke, a politician, defending the TTIP: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/11/eu-us-t... In short, he names the parts of the TTIP that are dangerous to democracy as "one comparatively minor element".
You don't have to read the details to grok the truth here.
A trade agreement, either bipartisan or regional/pact-based, fundamentally equates to the effective surrendering of certain aspects of sovereignty, labelled as temporary but often effectively permanent.
In almost all cases, such arrangements benefit those with greater capital/legal expertise/spying capability, which is .. guess who?
In many cases, where the US is involved, the 'free market' being trumpeted as some grand international mode of deliverance is not only a completely about-face from the reality of back-home protectionist policies. They are in no way going to benefit the little guy in the client states.
These things are signed by stupid or corrupt pollies who back-pocket the profits in personal favors or career advancement (often lucrative do-nothing retirement-time consulting positions) and walk off to a fat future while the rest of the people get shafted.
For a historical look at the development of these highly successful CIA-assisted projects in the developing world, check out Confessions of an Economic Hitman. I've since discussed it with diplomats and they've validated portions personally.
Luckily, the model is just about on its last legs though: virtually nobody is stupid enough to believe this stuff at face value anymore.
Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
The goal is to stop this in its current form. It's currently being negotiated in secret, which is never a good sign. It's also very likely to once again include all kinds of directives greatly benefitting a few lobbying partners without the EU citizens knowing what's going on until it's too late.
"Negotiated in secret" is totally normal in representative democracies. Negotiation involves a lot of give and take, taking positions that you don't actually want in hopes of getting something else, brinkmanship, and trying to come to a meeting of the minds with the other side. Now, the full text should be understood when it's time for things to actually be ratified or signed into law.
If a treaty of this extent is negotiated in secret and then made public for ratification it _can_ _only_ _fail_ to be accepted. (At least if the democratically elected EU parliament is involved in the acceptance process)
This thing changes so many parts of European law that we took decades to agree on, that the effort to make it "fly under the radar" seems comical.
Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA
#37Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA
#38I'm from Belgium, Karel De Gucht (who tried to get ACTA through and the guy who is obviously behind TTIP and CETA also) is also from Belgium, here are some things i know about him or his methods: Investigation for tax fraud and insider trading ( http://goo.gl/wnBN95 ). He is never going to get punished (the judges are his friends). If he sues me about writing this, i'm probably fucked These initiatives are trade agre…
I see no reason to distrust the whole of the EU just because they don't reject Karel De Gucht. After all, if Belgium stands behind him, the EU can't do much. If that isn't satisfying for you, I recommend distrusting the EU Commission. That's what I do.
Our best hope is to shoot this thing down when it has to be ratified by the EU parliament. During the last legislative period, the parliament has shown that it can and will use its powers to protect the citizens. (I'm thinking about its recent work on net neutrality and privacy.)
We can expect nothing from the Commision and we should expect to be betrayed by the council (that's the national leaders), but the EU Parliament is firmly on our side.
Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA
#39[deleted]
Where is the substance to your claims? The last few years has seen a constant erosion of income both in the USA and Europe. In any case why should trade agreements cede arbitration and disputes to tribunals and panels which are not subject to public scrutiny and proper judicial and democratic oversight?
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Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree, could someone please explain why CETA and TTIP are worth stopping? Given that the link doesn't seem to, and I don't have time to watch the press conference.
There is a nicely explained article about the potential threat to democracy that is TTIP: http://mondediplo.com/2013/12/02tafta . Incidently techdirt just ran an article on how Bolivia broke their own trade agreement with similar clauses: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140712/10031927860/boliv...
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