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European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA

stop-ttip.org

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Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA

#4

Post by daenney »

happyscrappy wrote: post #3

If this is defeated won't individual deals between each country have to be struck? That seems likely to have a worse outcome for Europe as countries will be played against each other.

The goal is to stop this in its current form. It's currently being negotiated in secret, which is never a good sign. It's also very likely to once again include all kinds of directives greatly benefitting a few lobbying partners without the EU citizens knowing what's going on until it's too late.

Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA

#5

Post by throwaway28974 »

happyscrappy wrote: post #3

If this is defeated won't individual deals between each country have to be struck? That seems likely to have a worse outcome for Europe as countries will be played against each other.

Why? There have been no such deals for the last 20 years and things are working just fine.

Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA

#6

Post by Orinocco »

happyscrappy wrote: post #3

If this is defeated won't individual deals between each country have to be struck? That seems likely to have a worse outcome for Europe as countries will be played against each other.

I agree, could someone please explain why CETA and TTIP are worth stopping? Given that the link doesn't seem to, and I don't have time to watch the press conference.

Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA

#8

Post by walterbell »

happyscrappy wrote: post #3

If this is defeated won't individual deals between each country have to be struck? That seems likely to have a worse outcome for Europe as countries will be played against each other.

There are many moving parts. One open issue is lawsuits from foreign corporations against national governments. There's a running log here:

http://blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2013/11/tti...

Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA

#9

Post by touristtam »

Orinocco wrote: post #6
happyscrappy wrote: post #3

If this is defeated won't individual deals between each country have to be struck? That seems likely to have a worse outcome for Europe as countries will be played against each other.

I agree, could someone please explain why CETA and TTIP are worth stopping? Given that the link doesn't seem to, and I don't have time to watch the press conference.

There is a nicely explained article about the potential threat to democracy that is TTIP: http://mondediplo.com/2013/12/02tafta. Incidently techdirt just ran an article on how Bolivia broke their own trade agreement with similar clauses: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140712/10031927860/boliv...

Re: European Citizens’ Initiative against TTIP and CETA

#10

Post by waps »

daenney wrote: post #4
happyscrappy wrote: post #3

If this is defeated won't individual deals between each country have to be struck? That seems likely to have a worse outcome for Europe as countries will be played against each other.

The goal is to stop this in its current form. It's currently being negotiated in secret, which is never a good sign. It's also very likely to once again include all kinds of directives greatly benefitting a few lobbying partners without the EU citizens knowing what's going on until it's too late.

EU citizens ? Why do they matter ?

The EU fought hard to get two legal precedents :

1) that international treaties preceed the constitutions of member states (and any and all other laws).

2) that the European Commission would be allowed to agree to international treaties on behalf of member states.

There is nobody that can stop this that isn't already in power and Volcker can push this through without ratification by any kind of elected body. Stopping it can only be done in the United States, where it actually has to pass parliament ("congress").

At least now we know why there is no "democratic" in the "European Union" name.

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