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Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

eurekalert.org

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Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#311

Post by jerf »

nostrademons wrote: post #200
jerf wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "right to be forgotten" is just a societal mechanism for enforcing forgiveness, since we lack any other way to enforce or even particularly suggest forgiveness as a society [1]. Humans are not wired for the proper amounts of forgiveness in a digital world. (One can debate how correctly wired they are under other circumstances, but I feel pretty confident that our thresholds aren't even close to right for a digita…

I think the problem is ultimately self-correcting as judgmental people start losing out on opportunities. When Facebook first came out, most of the older generation put out dire warnings about losing jobs because of that drunken party pic you put up. That happens, but now if you start disqualifying every candidate who ever put something embarrassing up on the Internet, you won't have a very large applicant pool. Cue…

I agree that in the long term we must consider second-order effects; I'm not sure we can call them yet. I can also build a plausible case for the idea that as we all live in a global village, we will all find ourselves adopting village-like privacy policies, in particular including making it so you're always playing a persona in public.

Further second-order effects become interesting, too... for instance, this could be a long-term threat to the entire social network scene. If it simply becomes a place to play a persona, and correspondingly a place to consume other people's personas, rather than connect with people on a human level, it also becomes something much less compelling than it currently is.

I think we also have to consider that job applications aren't absolute, they're relative in many ways. If having drunken orgy pictures up on my Facebook isn't a disqualifying event for a job, I still have to consider that I'm going up against someone who doesn't, and that the other prospect may thus be more attractive (because, let's be honest, there is real information about personality in those pictures however much we may wish it was otherwise). So next time I apply, I purge my pictures and now I'm the guy with the squeaky clean social media presence, which pushes everybody that much further in that direction.

Openness and non-judgmental is fun to say, but hiring is fundamentally, irreducibly judgmental. A judgment is what it is. That has an effect on the process.

I'm just musing... I'm serious about my first paragraph, I think it's too early to call the second-order effects.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#312

Post by e_proxus »

lmm wrote: post #305
Sprint wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emphasis on can . Of course it can, there is always outliers and there is nothing that can be done about that. However I would guess that in the majority of cases people beating do get handled. I am just guessing. Are you just guessing too or do you have some hard evidence or statistics to back your claim?

My personal experience and that of other members of my family is in line with Kiro's claim. Not very strong evidence, but it's what I've got.

Where I'm from people doing the beatings would get warnings, detention, special class and consultation, or as a last resort youth detention center ("prison" for kids with focus on rehabilitation) in that order. Sure, you could also move schools but this seems more to have been a decision taken by parents and not the school system itself.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#313

Post by PeterisP »

opendais wrote: post #223
PeterisP wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This example doesn't need a right to be forgotten, it needs a right to not be noted in the first place. For arrests w/o conviction, the person has done nothing that would justify a violation of his privacy - what right or excuse could there be to allow the police to publish their names or other personally identifiable info in the first place? Especially for minors (as for the curfew issues)? You need to keep the priv…

I think the problem here is the 1st amendment trumps your right to privacy in the US when it comes to matters of public record. I'm not sure I want that to change because people do have a right to know if a legal issue is in process, they just don't have the right to be prejudiced if you are found innocent/released without a guilty verdict.

The first amendment allows local newspapers to publish info that they got from the police public record.

It certainly doesn't prevent a law that forbids police to disclose names of arrested minors, and keep their names out of the public record unless they're proven guilty.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#314

Post by opendais »

Sharlin wrote: post #298
opendais wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough but if you reply to someone...sometimes people assume you mean them.

I should've been more precise, sorry about that.

I was just explaining why I was confused. You are free to do whatever you like :D

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#315

Post by opendais »

silverbax88 wrote: post #309
pavanky wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are legitimate concerns. How about the cases when a politician said something racist/bigoted 10 years ago. He wants them expunged now because his views are different. How do you differentiate political convenience from legitimate change in views? Also to clarify the two points you've mentioned Google does not generate the data. The data has to be public somewhere. If google is not doing the indexing, some other…

If you said something in a public forum, you can't have it expunged. You can address previous remarks, you can state a thousand times that you were wrong, but it cannot and should not be expunged. I don't see why someone's arrest record should be hidden unless they were exonerated or there were specific circumstances for doing so. We're not asking search engines to ignore public data. The EU is telling search engines…

> I don't see why someone's arrest record should be hidden unless they were exonerated or there were specific circumstances for doing so.

The problem you aren't getting is that for the poor and anyone who can't afford a lawyer...this doesn't happen. The exceptions are notable nationwide media coverage types.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#316

Post by opendais »

PeterisP wrote: post #313
opendais wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem here is the 1st amendment trumps your right to privacy in the US when it comes to matters of public record. I'm not sure I want that to change because people do have a right to know if a legal issue is in process, they just don't have the right to be prejudiced if you are found innocent/released without a guilty verdict.

The first amendment allows local newspapers to publish info that they got from the police public record. It certainly doesn't prevent a law that forbids police to disclose names of arrested minors, and keep their names out of the public record unless they're proven guilty.

True. However, I suspect many of these "youths" might be 18-19.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#317

Post by josu »

john_other_john wrote: post #168
josu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a bot?

What's the fascination? Edit: genuinely curious

Your comment seems coherent until you start to read it and realize that it doens't make any sense. If you didn't state that you weren't from the UK I could think that English may not be your first language. What does that paragraph about trademark laws have to do with this thread?

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#318

Post by ashwinaj »

I think people need to take a good hard look at where the society in general is heading. I've heard from older folks that they used to be "disciplined" by parents and teachers alike in the 50's, 60's and 70's (and I'm sure the arrest percentage wasn't 40% at the time). And now it's "I don't want a lawsuit so let's just call the police". A book on Asian "Tiger mom" is lambasted by the popular media and people in general. But Asian kids aren't being arrested in such shocking numbers, are they? Isn't it obvious that there is some merit in the "Tiger mom" philosophy? If kids are allowed to do whatever the hell they want without any repercussions ("Mr./miss you're grounded" is not one of those) then what do you expect they're going to do?

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#319

Post by TheCoelacanth »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #244
peckrob wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have said, they only apply to minors (under 18) and are usually restricted to certain hours and days. And they can vary depending on the cities, counties and states. It can be a kinda confusing mishmash of laws for those who live near the borders. I grew up outside Knoxville, Tennessee. The curfew in the city was 17-18, Monday-Thursday, 11pm-6am, Friday-Sunday, Midnight-6am. 16 and under, subtract an hour f…

It seems like one of those laws that is a "convenience law." I.e., it's there for the convenience of the police if they see something suspicious and want to question you, or something they can hit you with if they don't like your attitude. That that simply to provide something to charge you with? If you are acting suspicious, surely they have the power to question you anyway curfew law or no curfew law?

If they want to search you, they would need probable cause; simply "acting suspicious" isn't enough. Overly broad laws like this give them a convenient way of bypassing the 4th amendment.

Re: Study: Half of black males, 40% of white males arrested by age 23

#320

Post by mikecb »

tptacek wrote: post #206
head_stomp wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Receiving a citation is a non-custodial arrest. edit just to make it clear: This is not my opinion. This is the legal definition. The study includes citations as arrests. This is why they make sure to point out that they do not include minor traffic offenses.

There is a such thing as a non-custodial address, but that does not make every detention encounter with the police that doesn't result in you being taken into custody a "non-custodial arrest". By way of example: if you're issued a speeding ticket, the police do not gain the right to search your vehicle. But they do have that right if they arrest you.

> the police do not gain the right to search your vehicle.

Depends. Just need probable cause. Motor vehicle exception.

>But they do have that right if they arrest you.

Depends. Search incident to arrest exception with automobile caveats. After Gant, if the arrestee no longer has access, or no reason to believe that evidence of the arrest offense will be found, not ok. (But still maybe ok to impound and inventory.)

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