Germany turns up pressure in suspected US spy case

Post by count » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:13 PM UTC

paglia_s wrote: post #65

susi22 wrote: post #28

Merkel doesn't care that much and she --even though I hate to say it-- is right that we shouldn't. This spying case isn't a big deal. It doesn't hurt Germany. Also the spying on her phone last year. She didn't really care all that much. After all, USA is the biggest partner of the EU/Germany. Germany can't afford a dent in the relationship with the US. It's the US who's providing security to most of the western world…

> It's the US who's providing security to most of the western world. Who's supposed to protect us from Putin? The NATO? Are you sure Europe couldn't manage its security by itself? I mean, while keeping strong relations and cooperation directly with the US and inside NATO I don't understand why European countries wouldn't be able to defend themselves especially if we started thinking about a stronger cooperation betwe…

Post by 1337biz » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 4:24 PM UTC

ThePhysicist wrote: post #54

mschuster91 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which would be a huge economic loss for the US LOL, I hope you're not being serious. The only ones TTIP and friends are going to benefit is Big Capital and American producers of chlorine-treated chicken. No thanks, it's enough you fuck up your own country, no need to fuck up Europe too.

Well, according to the E.U. the treaty could generate 100 BN € in revenue and more than 1 million jobs both in US and EU, so even if those numbers should be off by a factor of two it's still pretty big... http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ttip/

Post by tobiasu » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 5:27 PM UTC

fit2rule wrote: post #72

arrrg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you are actually saying is, yes, Germany has full sovereignty. Please don’t spread this bullshit. There is (mostly) mutually beneficial strong cooperation with a power-differential. That’s all. Stop spinning your dumb conspiracy theories.

Germany does not have full sovereignty and won't, ever, until a Peace Treaty is signed and ratified. America won't allow that to happen because then it'd have to pull out all of its troops - and in case you didn't know, Germany is full of American troops and other military-industrial resources. Germany is, at most, a puppet state - a model for what America had hoped to pull off in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and so on…

Post by mschuster91 » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 8:53 PM UTC

ThePhysicist wrote: post #54

mschuster91 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which would be a huge economic loss for the US LOL, I hope you're not being serious. The only ones TTIP and friends are going to benefit is Big Capital and American producers of chlorine-treated chicken. No thanks, it's enough you fuck up your own country, no need to fuck up Europe too.

Well, according to the E.U. the treaty could generate 100 BN € in revenue and more than 1 million jobs both in US and EU, so even if those numbers should be off by a factor of two it's still pretty big... http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ttip/

Post by terranstyler » Mon, Jul 07, 2014, 9:36 PM UTC

bayesianhorse wrote: post #37

terranstyler wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason they don't do it, in spite of nearly everyone [1] distrusting the US gov't, makes me wonder what kind of leverage the US secret services have. It also lends some credence to the "Germany was never really souvereign" theory. [1] Just check the comment sections in the major German newspapers.

Non-Souvereignty is largely regarded as a wild conspiracy theory. And really, what kind of evidence is there? Inevitably, signs of "foreign control" turns out to be some form of competition, cooperation, trade or just plain common interests. What counts more is that Germans are allowed to say anything they want, there is no evidence of tampering in elections, the press is free and extensive, and people can largely do…