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Ambitious Artificial Intelligence Project Operating In Near-Secrecy For 30 Years

businessinsider.com

11–20 of 46 posts

Re: Ambitious Artificial Intelligence Project Operating In Near-Secrecy For 30 Years

#11
30 years in the cooler? I would be very afraid of finally revealing 30 years of hard work, only to find out it's irrelevant now...or that we pursued in the wrong direction.

Does not seem to be a very good way to go about revolutionizing any technology...

Re: Ambitious Artificial Intelligence Project Operating In Near-Secrecy For 30 Years

#12
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post #3

Low profile? Really? Or still in the winter of the old AI? Cyc more like hardcoded more than "taught" as stated in the article.

Not really, no. I remember talking about Cyc in my AI classes in university, and I graduated in '97. Then again, Business Insider ...

By "near secrecy" they mean "hasn't hired a PR firm."

Re: Ambitious Artificial Intelligence Project Operating In Near-Secrecy For 30 Years

#13
post #4
post #3

Low profile? Really? Or still in the winter of the old AI? Cyc more like hardcoded more than "taught" as stated in the article.

Agreed. Cyc is far from low profile. It was in Omni magazine back in the day - and it's a common example of (problematic) GOFAI approaches.

Presuming they've actually been diligently working away, it makes an interesting test of the "we just haven't done it hard enough" hypothesis.

Re: Ambitious Artificial Intelligence Project Operating In Near-Secrecy For 30 Years

#14
Ha, near secrecy. Sheesh, Lenat is a well-known figure in the AI world and Cyc is a very well-known project that has been written about for years. I don't care if the BusinessInsider author is what, 28 years old, he should do some decent reporting and not use such a stupid headline.

Re: Ambitious Artificial Intelligence Project Operating In Near-Secrecy For 30 Years

#16
post #7
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Doug Lenat is, to me, the most confusing case of someone in AI. He programmed a general problem solver (Eurisko) to use (meta^n)-heuristics that solved a major strategy game, coming up wih a creative plan no human thought of, and yielding insights on the field of heuristics and the "Representation Language Language". ... and then "went dark", "officially" working on this tedious, brittle attempt to compile common sen…

Since when people call him "Doug"? :) Eurisko had some amazing accomplishments, but some questioned their authenticity saying Douglas and students help it a bit. Anyway, Douglas Lenat is my all-times idol and I hope this prolonged "stealth mode" was the intermission of something great. Isn't Freebase.com his project as well?

> Since when people call him "Doug"?

One datapoint: http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/2.04/cyc-o.html

So for more than 20 years.

Re: Ambitious Artificial Intelligence Project Operating In Near-Secrecy For 30 Years

#17
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when people call him "Doug"? :) Eurisko had some amazing accomplishments, but some questioned their authenticity saying Douglas and students help it a bit. Anyway, Douglas Lenat is my all-times idol and I hope this prolonged "stealth mode" was the intermission of something great. Isn't Freebase.com his project as well?

> Since when people call him "Doug"? One datapoint: http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/2.04/cyc-o.html So for more than 20 years.

When I was reading about his work, it was the 80s, early 90s. :)

Re: Ambitious Artificial Intelligence Project Operating In Near-Secrecy For 30 Years

#18
post #4
post #3

Low profile? Really? Or still in the winter of the old AI? Cyc more like hardcoded more than "taught" as stated in the article.

Agreed. Cyc is far from low profile. It was in Omni magazine back in the day - and it's a common example of (problematic) GOFAI approaches.

Yeah it is hardly low profile. It was a very well funded project that promised the moon and failed to deliver despite absorbing a massive amount of DoD money. A lot of AI researchers at the lab I worked at weren't big fans as there was the sense that Cyc was a shining example of how money spent on symbolic AI was just wasted.

Re: Ambitious Artificial Intelligence Project Operating In Near-Secrecy For 30 Years

#19
> "It's not done by any means, but it's useful."

Is it? How do we know? You've been working on a product "in stealth" for 30 years, shown practically nobody outside your company, and provided us with nothing more than a vaporous description of its capabilities (in Businessinsider, no less). I'm left wondering not only how seriously I should be taking this claim, but also exactly what the claim even is.

Artificial intelligence is hard. I did an internship at Numenta [1], where Jeff Hawkins is approaching AI from this same biological-first model. He hypothesized how a small subset of the brain works, constructed a model of it, and admirably hired dozens of engineers to build it. The guys behind the Numenta software are some of the best engineers I've met, with combined centuries of experience, and it's taken them almost ten years to get the software to its current, extremely primitive state. Right now, the model is implemented, and you can use the API to apply it to specific applications (predictive analytics, anomaly detection). But we are a long way off from the capability of applying it to "general input."

The fact is, AI is not going to impress anyone until it can handle an equivalently general class of inputs to what a human can handle. And think about the inputs that humans receive. The five senses are just the beginning. They're the concrete inputs we receive from the world. In addition to them, there's a near infinite class of more abstract inputs that build on top of them. As humans, we interpret social cues, hormonal feedback, the emotions our body often inexplicably generates, and dozens of other "second-order" inputs that are derived from our fundamental sensory ones, but seem equally fundamental to us.

Ok, sure. Maybe you can model the brain, and maybe it can respond to inputs from its sensory environment. But those inputs are the absolute lowest building block of the totality of input into our brain. We have an entire subconscience dedicated to processing those fundamental sensory inputs, and generating derivative ones for our consciousness to process. The difficulty in AI, in 2014, is modeling that subconscience. How do we go from basic environmental input to its infinitely more complex derivatives? How do we build a subconscience that our current AI can interpret as an input of its own?

We are a long way off from this capability. Nobody is going to figure it out on their own, and neither is a company of a few dozen. To me, it seems incredibly wasteful to spend 30 years working on this product without revealing any of the journey. After all this time, what do you have to show for it? Basically nothing. Your AI can apparently complete tasks of a similar complexity to state of the art that's been developed in less than a decade.

I want to see models, and I want the community to discuss them, problem solve with them, and build on them. Enough of this closed source, proprietary, snail's pace AI development.

Software is constrained by computing limitations. Fundamentally, there can be no computational model that even approaches the complexity of a brain. At least not today. So why not forget about trying to build Skynet, and work with the community to further the field together?

[1] www.numenta.org

Re: Ambitious Artificial Intelligence Project Operating In Near-Secrecy For 30 Years

#20
When I read this story the first thing that sprung to mind was Ted Nelson's Project Xanadu, described by Wired magazine as "the longest-running vaporware story in the history of the computer industry".

As any entrepreneur will tell you, it is never a good idea to have long-running projects with few public deliverables. Projects like this need new blood, new ideas and continuous user validation in order to remain relevant.

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