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Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

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Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#131

Post by schoen »

haakon wrote: post #128
schoen wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tor has a notion of exit policy, but it's only expressed in terms of permitted and forbidden TCP port numbers. This lets you, for example, decline to deliver SMTP traffic on TCP port 25. The exit policy can't list IP subnets (contrary to my recollection; I thought it could, and maybe it once did). A lot of government investigations of Tor users do involve the use of pretty mainstream, popular services like Gmail, acc…

I'm pretty sure you can still express IP subnets in exit policies. From https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-manual.html.en , heading "ExitPolicy policy,policy,…": Each policy is of the form "accept|reject ADDR[/MASK][:PORT]". If /MASK is omitted then this policy just applies to the host given. Instead of giving a host or network you can also use "*" to denote the universe (0.0.0.0/0). PORT can be a single port number…

Huh. That looks like what I remembered, but I don't actually see any policies that use that form in the cached consensus.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#133

Post by anon4 »

rbanffy wrote: post #124
Andrew_Quentin wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So a knife producer, by that logic, is also guilty, because of the reputation of knife's to, you know, kill people.

Also everyone up to the guy who mined the iron ore. Even the people who designed the machinery used to mine all the way to those who designed the machinery that makes the knives, because, without them, knives would not exist.

You're forgetting the government that set up a common currency allowing for the sale of the knife.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#134

Post by anon4 »

lawl wrote: post #11
dewey wrote: post #2

Official statement from the guy who got sentenced: https://rdns.im/court-official-statement-part-1

Came here and to post this too. It's really a shame how the current system of law enforcement is designed to destroy completely destroy people. I'm idling in some of the same public IRC channels as will (since way before he was raided for running a TOR node) it was/is painful to watch how this completely destroyed him. It has really put me off, and probably many others, from ever hosting a TOR node, which might what…

Maybe, and I realise this sounds borderline crazy, but hear me out.

Maybe we shouldn't be running TOR exit nodes personally. It seems to me a couple of people should form a nonprofit company to run the node and distance themselves from liability that way. You'll still need to shut it down if your company is found guilty of running a server that was used to distribute bad bits, but it would be more "we wanted to make something nice and these gosh darned paedophiles got in our way and we can't continue" and less "you collude with paedophiles and are a paedophile and a criminal". It will be harder and it will take more funds and perhaps it's borderline impossible, but this is where things seem to be going. Be a corporation, because individual people get squashed like bugs.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#135

Post by loup-vaillant »

anon4 wrote: post #134
lawl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here and to post this too. It's really a shame how the current system of law enforcement is designed to destroy completely destroy people. I'm idling in some of the same public IRC channels as will (since way before he was raided for running a TOR node) it was/is painful to watch how this completely destroyed him. It has really put me off, and probably many others, from ever hosting a TOR node, which might what…

Maybe, and I realise this sounds borderline crazy, but hear me out. Maybe we shouldn't be running TOR exit nodes personally. It seems to me a couple of people should form a nonprofit company to run the node and distance themselves from liability that way. You'll still need to shut it down if your company is found guilty of running a server that was used to distribute bad bits, but it would be more "we wanted to make…

Unfortunately, setting up a limited liability corporation tend to require substantial funding up front, I believe several months worth of median income in many places.

I'm afraid your advice actually reduces to "be rich, because poor people get squashed like bugs". (Of course, another possibility is to rally many people to your cause. Then you can fund your expensive legal structure with poor people.)

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#136

Post by DLister »

teamhappy wrote: post #20
lawl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here and to post this too. It's really a shame how the current system of law enforcement is designed to destroy completely destroy people. I'm idling in some of the same public IRC channels as will (since way before he was raided for running a TOR node) it was/is painful to watch how this completely destroyed him. It has really put me off, and probably many others, from ever hosting a TOR node, which might what…

Unfortunately this hasn't been the first case like that and it probably won't be the last one either. Saying they destroy peoples lives on purpose isn't fair though. Everybody setting up an exit node knows there's some chance the police will knock on your door one day or at the very least you'll end up getting a lot of letters. Projects like https://www.torservers.net exist for that very reason. I understand donating…

It sounds to me like the best way to keep yourself safe from having your every electronic gadget taken by police would be to set it up your TOR node under some limited liability company like structure so while it would be taken down you would at least still be able to function while you fight it.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#138

Post by lutorm »

downandout wrote: post #52
fredsted wrote: post #10

Is this is the "big brother" plan to eradicate anonymity services? Just argue "child porn!" and arrest everyone? The law quoted was: >Not only the immediate perpetator commits a criminal action, but also anyone who appoints someone to carry it out, or anyone who otherwise contributes to the completion of said criminal action. Anyone who contributes? Wouldn't this include ISPs or perhaps even the application server te…

While I disagree with them, there are a multitude of laws in most countries that make operating a TOR exit node a very bad idea. The concept of criminal responsibility for enabling the illegal acts of others, even when you don't know specifically what others are going to do with the tools you provide, is well established in the US and other countries. Perfect example: Ryan Holle of Florida is serving life without par…

So by the same argument, if someone takes the bus to commit a crime, the bus operator is responsible?

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#139

Post by jonknee »

xienze wrote: post #83
lawl wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here and to post this too. It's really a shame how the current system of law enforcement is designed to destroy completely destroy people. I'm idling in some of the same public IRC channels as will (since way before he was raided for running a TOR node) it was/is painful to watch how this completely destroyed him. It has really put me off, and probably many others, from ever hosting a TOR node, which might what…

> If you want to help people in heavily censored (or monitored, but what would be every single one of them, as of now) countries you get punished and your life gets completely ruined. I know that's the dream of everyone running a Tor node but let's face it, you're mostly helping drug dealers and child pornographers operate. Not saying that's your intention, but that's what's happening. That's why it's absolutely craz…

Call me crazy, but I'm alright if some unsavory characters have an easier time staying anonymous if at the same time it makes it harder for states to censor the internet (they go hand in hand).

Tor lets people access things that their government doesn't want them to. Sometimes that means porn and drugs, but in much of the world that can simply be a news report.

Re: Tor exit node operator prosecuted in Austria

#140

Post by ufmace »

danielweber wrote: post #80
downandout wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home invasions have a tendency to end up with someone dead. Don't help your friends commit them by giving them guns or the vehicles to get there. (Also, don't be the getaway driver for a bank robbery.) And, I suspect a jury would add to that...Don't offer up your internet connection with the specific intent to aid in shielding the identities of child pornographers, spammers, and all manner of thieves.

The jury doesn't get to make up laws or charges. Halle was convicted specifically under Florida's felony murder law, which lists a number of felonies (including arson, escape, home invasion, and carjacking) that, if you participate in them, you are liable for any murders that occur during them. We might someday find that everyone is responsible for their Internet connection. But it won't be because of felony murder l…

Interesting quirk - under felony murder, you are responsible for any deaths that occur as a result of the crime, not just murder.

If a guy has a heart attack and dies while you're robbing a bank, boom, felony murder for everyone.

If a guard, police officer, or armed citizen shoots dead one of your accomplices during the crime, felony murder for you.

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