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From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

nytimes.com

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Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#101

Post by bioskope »

austinz wrote: post #84
diminoten wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't get why people think they, upon examining a problem for mere moments, think they can dismiss something as unnecessary or frivolous. I trust the NASA engineers to know more about this problem than you (random commenter on the Internet) or I. Should I not? Can you explain to me what your thinking is regarding your belief that you can glance at an issue like this and trump the thinking of dozens of field ex…

I think it should be clear by now that a lot of people think that their expertise in software automatically qualifies them to make authoritative statements on behalf of every other field of science and engineering.

I google, therefore I am.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#102

Post by mcguire »

"Just days after the launch of India’s Mangalyaan satellite, NASA sent off its own Mars mission...named Maven. Its cost: $671 million. The budget of India’s Mars mission...was just three-quarters of [...] $100 million..."

I would like to point out that Maven is 1.8 times the mass of Mangalyaan (in terms of "launch mass" according to Wikipedia; Maven's "payload mass" is 4.3 times that of Mangalyaan). Mass costs.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#103

Post by mcguire »

austinz wrote: post #84
diminoten wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't get why people think they, upon examining a problem for mere moments, think they can dismiss something as unnecessary or frivolous. I trust the NASA engineers to know more about this problem than you (random commenter on the Internet) or I. Should I not? Can you explain to me what your thinking is regarding your belief that you can glance at an issue like this and trump the thinking of dozens of field ex…

I think it should be clear by now that a lot of people think that their expertise in software automatically qualifies them to make authoritative statements on behalf of every other field of science and engineering.

That's actually one of the pieces of evidence that leads me to believe that software development is a form of engineering.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#104

Post by dwild »

diminoten wrote: post #72
danielweber wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote, but I felt a mood-affiliation reason to downvote in that trying our darnedest to never contaminate Mars will stop us from colonizing Mars. Separately: Over the course of billions of years, rocks have moved from Earth to Mars and back. If colonization were a matter of just moving from one to the other, it would have happened already. In fact, answering that question seems very scientifically useful,…

I just don't get why people think they, upon examining a problem for mere moments, think they can dismiss something as unnecessary or frivolous. I trust the NASA engineers to know more about this problem than you (random commenter on the Internet) or I. Should I not? Can you explain to me what your thinking is regarding your belief that you can glance at an issue like this and trump the thinking of dozens of field ex…

I trust the Indian engineers to know more about this problem than you or I. Should I not?

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#105

Post by diminoten »

dwild wrote: post #104
diminoten wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't get why people think they, upon examining a problem for mere moments, think they can dismiss something as unnecessary or frivolous. I trust the NASA engineers to know more about this problem than you (random commenter on the Internet) or I. Should I not? Can you explain to me what your thinking is regarding your belief that you can glance at an issue like this and trump the thinking of dozens of field ex…

I trust the Indian engineers to know more about this problem than you or I. Should I not?

As far as I can tell, no!

I didn't mean to say that NASA or the Indian engineers know more or less than one another, even if they disagree. It's just not for us, the folks who don't actually know much about this topic, to make determinations.

Or maybe it is. I was hoping to discuss that point.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#106

Post by zem »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #61
someperson wrote: post #9

What the NYT article didn't mention was the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft. A huge portion of the budget for a probe like MAVEN [1] or JUNO [2] is spent reducing the chance of Earth microbes colonizing Mars or a moon of Jupiter. It would be a huge shame for us to have doubt whether the first extra terrestial microbes we find in the solar system were really alien or simply Space Age Earth based life [1]…

I hate being this guy, but the euphemism is to "jibe" with, not "jive".

you mean "idiom", not "euphemism".

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#107

Post by kamaal »

mcguire wrote: post #103
austinz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it should be clear by now that a lot of people think that their expertise in software automatically qualifies them to make authoritative statements on behalf of every other field of science and engineering.

That's actually one of the pieces of evidence that leads me to believe that software development is a form of engineering.

I think there is a 'meta' aspect to software development. We almost work one layer above other branches of engineering.

Which is what gives that feeling that you can ideally work on any problem and solve it. Because that is exactly what we do, look at the diverse domains that benefit from the use of computers and software.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#108

Post by [deleted] »

suprgeek wrote: post #89

I detest the spin on "Jugaad" that this article provides. Having lived day-to-day in India I have seen way too many unsafe and potentially deadly "jugaads" every single day. From the CNG Car driver hacking up his Car to use a cheaper subsidized gas tank, to the hospital hacking up their BP monitors to run longer despite failed parts to continual flouting of Petrol storage rules keeping it in tin cans. This stupid men…

[deleted]

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#109

Post by kamaal »

suprgeek wrote: post #89

I detest the spin on "Jugaad" that this article provides. Having lived day-to-day in India I have seen way too many unsafe and potentially deadly "jugaads" every single day. From the CNG Car driver hacking up his Car to use a cheaper subsidized gas tank, to the hospital hacking up their BP monitors to run longer despite failed parts to continual flouting of Petrol storage rules keeping it in tin cans. This stupid men…

There is a big difference between 'Jugaad' and deliberate mistakes. 'Jugaad' can be best translated into English as 'making the best of what one has to deliver stuff'. And that's a very good thing.

Heck we even had a subject in Primary school called SUPW(Socially useful productive work) which was basically a fancy name for Jugaad, where they covered every thing from building candles to making door mats with discarded cigarette packs, to building simple engine based toys with rubber band based springs.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#110

Post by jsudhams »

whacker wrote: post #88
jsudhams wrote: post #68

I am all for the mutually exclusive programs of poverty and technological advancement (in this case sending vehicle to Mars orbit) but the other part getting rid of the poverty and other things (corruption, bad governance,Individual's discipline, and safety, are pretty much going down the drain). I don't why these scientist can't find solution Bangalore's garbage drop issue, traffic issue and real estate woes and so…

I think we are very good as individuals, but we fail collectively. That is why even the poorest Indian home will be clean, but the wealthiest public street could be dirty.

Never thought about it and you are right on "That is why even the poorest Indian home will be clean, but the wealthiest public street could be dirty". I think the root cause is the discipline in public, i am trying to assert when we (Indians) became so selfish or given up about public issues. One reason i could think is that urbanisaztion is still settling in and we do not know how to behave and live in cities yet because i remember that in our village we use undertake common interest and maintain those like ensuring that the pond are cleaned in time and volunteer one day man hour or equivalent money (coolie) to be given to local panchayat.
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