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From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

nytimes.com

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Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#81

Post by exhilaration »

DominikR wrote: post #70
exhilaration wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because there are enough planets that every human being on earth could have its own. Bro, we're never reaching those planets, FTL travel is a fantasy. Are you really willing to bet whatever life is on Mars on the hope that humans will someday be able to travel faster than light? What we could learn from extraterrestrial life, even if it's only microbes, could open vast new areas of biology research - potentially cu…

So your argument is basically "don't do it, because what I believe in is more probable than what you believe in" even though there's no way to calculate those probabilities.

Strangely enough that sounds like the same argument you're making.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#82

Post by programmer_dude »

someperson wrote: post #23
programmer_dude wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide some sources which demonstrate the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft?

I can't provide evidence of lack of heat and chemical based sterilization treatment post assembly of spacecraft but see my updated post for sources on lack of clean room procedures DURING assembly - particularly the video at http://www.space.com/23199-indias-first-mars-mission-prepare... which shows assembly conditions very clearly

Thanks, all good points. However we cannot yet rule out post assembly sterilization.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#83

Post by diminoten »

danielweber wrote: post #78
diminoten wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't get why people think they, upon examining a problem for mere moments, think they can dismiss something as unnecessary or frivolous. I trust the NASA engineers to know more about this problem than you (random commenter on the Internet) or I. Should I not? Can you explain to me what your thinking is regarding your belief that you can glance at an issue like this and trump the thinking of dozens of field ex…

I'm happy to criticize many NASA design decisions, like the entire Space Shuttle concept. (Which honestly has a lot to do with political requirements but are still bad decisions.) But what do you think I've said in the comment you replied to that trumps NASA's design decisions? That sterilization is unimportant? I think NASA sterilizing the equipment it uses to detect life is obviously the right design decision. Ther…

I'm referencing specifically around your comments related to sterilization ("If colonization were a matter of just moving from one to the other, it would have happened already.").

It's simply baffling to me, that a person could sit in front of a computer with absolutely no education or understanding in a topic and call a litany of experts in a field all wrong within the same hour as learning of the specific problem in the first place, or even claim to know what is "obviously the right design decision".

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#84

Post by austinz »

diminoten wrote: post #72
danielweber wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote, but I felt a mood-affiliation reason to downvote in that trying our darnedest to never contaminate Mars will stop us from colonizing Mars. Separately: Over the course of billions of years, rocks have moved from Earth to Mars and back. If colonization were a matter of just moving from one to the other, it would have happened already. In fact, answering that question seems very scientifically useful,…

I just don't get why people think they, upon examining a problem for mere moments, think they can dismiss something as unnecessary or frivolous. I trust the NASA engineers to know more about this problem than you (random commenter on the Internet) or I. Should I not? Can you explain to me what your thinking is regarding your belief that you can glance at an issue like this and trump the thinking of dozens of field ex…

I think it should be clear by now that a lot of people think that their expertise in software automatically qualifies them to make authoritative statements on behalf of every other field of science and engineering.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#85

Post by DominikR »

exhilaration wrote: post #81
DominikR wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your argument is basically "don't do it, because what I believe in is more probable than what you believe in" even though there's no way to calculate those probabilities.

Strangely enough that sounds like the same argument you're making.

No, my argument is that there is no moral standard regarding this issue, that the majority on this planet agrees with, that there is no legitimate interest or ownership that could force anyone from doing otherwise, and that the potential benefits (colonization, resources, space) outweigh the belief in something that might be on Mars.

Meanwhile your argument is based beliefs where you can't even possibly calculate a probability, just like the belief in god.

What we have is our tools and capabilities to try and work with what we can reach at the moment in our solar system.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#86

Post by IanDrake »

mikeash wrote: post #80
IanDrake wrote: post #67

Seems like a pretty ill conceived article. Might as well have written about how American car companies like GM are able to produce much less expensive cars than the Italians like Ferrari. Both cars have engines, tires, etc... but WOW, can the Americans do it for so much less...

If there was nothing on the roads but fancy Ferraris, and then somebody came along and made a cheap GM that got the job done for much less, that would be newsworthy.

To me it's not that it's newsworthy or not, but how it's presented.

It's not that Americans/Europeans can't do what the Indians did, but that we're not interested in doing what they did. The article seems to confuse the two.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#87

Post by pedrosorio »

austinz wrote: post #84
diminoten wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't get why people think they, upon examining a problem for mere moments, think they can dismiss something as unnecessary or frivolous. I trust the NASA engineers to know more about this problem than you (random commenter on the Internet) or I. Should I not? Can you explain to me what your thinking is regarding your belief that you can glance at an issue like this and trump the thinking of dozens of field ex…

I think it should be clear by now that a lot of people think that their expertise in software automatically qualifies them to make authoritative statements on behalf of every other field of science and engineering.

http://xkcd.com/793/

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#88

Post by whacker »

jsudhams wrote: post #68

I am all for the mutually exclusive programs of poverty and technological advancement (in this case sending vehicle to Mars orbit) but the other part getting rid of the poverty and other things (corruption, bad governance,Individual's discipline, and safety, are pretty much going down the drain). I don't why these scientist can't find solution Bangalore's garbage drop issue, traffic issue and real estate woes and so…

I think we are very good as individuals, but we fail collectively. That is why even the poorest Indian home will be clean, but the wealthiest public street could be dirty.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#89

Post by suprgeek »

I detest the spin on "Jugaad" that this article provides. Having lived day-to-day in India I have seen way too many unsafe and potentially deadly "jugaads" every single day.

From the CNG Car driver hacking up his Car to use a cheaper subsidized gas tank, to the hospital hacking up their BP monitors to run longer despite failed parts to continual flouting of Petrol storage rules keeping it in tin cans.

This stupid mentality of taking dangerous short-cuts and flouting safety rules in the name of innovation just needs to die. You can escape disaster some of the time but finally you must pay the piper some time.

So while ISRO is indeed a bright spot, the craft they designed in this case was un-manned, not designed to land, and carried on top of the older workhorse PSLV rocket and was more of a technology demonstrator.

Re: From India, Proof That a Trip to Mars Doesn’t Have to Break the Bank

#90

Post by freehunter »

mrfusion wrote: post #40
someperson wrote: post #9

What the NYT article didn't mention was the lack of sterilization of the ISRO spacecraft. A huge portion of the budget for a probe like MAVEN [1] or JUNO [2] is spent reducing the chance of Earth microbes colonizing Mars or a moon of Jupiter. It would be a huge shame for us to have doubt whether the first extra terrestial microbes we find in the solar system were really alien or simply Space Age Earth based life [1]…

IMHO I view it differently. It would be a huge tragedy if we are the only life that has ever evolved in the universe and it all quietly ends on the same planet it started it. If there's a chance we can get even single celled life established on a another planet we should go for it. The loss of a bit of science is small potatoes compared to the fate of life in the universe.

I'm not sure there is a catastrophe big enough to destroy all life (and all hope for future life) on Earth that would not also destroy Mars (think Sun exploding). Even a major asteroid strike wouldn't kill off everything on the planet, as per the dinosaur extinction theory.
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