Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy • Hacker News Board

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#31

Post by seventytwo » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 2:38 PM UTC

One of the things the move towards a socialized healthcare system will do for this country is focus a debate on how to increase overall well-being within the country, and how to balance that with economic output. Something I think this article misses is the effect our work habits have on our health as a country. Studies have repeatedly shown that those last several hours per week are only marginally productive, but how detrimental might they be? I would imagine the health effects (stress, blood pressure, poor eating habits, lack of exercise, etc.) become amplified in those very hours in which productivity becomes nearly worthless.

It's hard to quantify any of this, however, so it might be completely glossed over in the article on purpose. I'm sure that thinking like this will become more prevalent...

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#32

Post by alandarev » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 2:38 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #17

And yet compared to those European countries, the US experiences significantly higher GDP per capita. Doing work and getting paid for it hardly seems like it's hurting the economy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP... As to the studies cited in the article I would point to the OECD labor productivity statistics which, in the aggregate, seem to disagree. http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?Data…

Feels more like journalists are just using any correlations to explain recession.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#33

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 2:39 PM UTC

coreymgilmore wrote: post #2

I feel this article is a little weak in one major sense: comparing the US to European countries based on non-working time is okay, but you also need to compare a metric like GDP. Using this, the US is #6 world-wide only behind two European countries. So yes, Euros may get more time off, but the US is a way more economically powerful and productive country economically. Hurting the economy, sure people get burned out,…

[deleted]

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#34

Post by _delirium » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 2:39 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #17

And yet compared to those European countries, the US experiences significantly higher GDP per capita. Doing work and getting paid for it hardly seems like it's hurting the economy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28PPP... As to the studies cited in the article I would point to the OECD labor productivity statistics which, in the aggregate, seem to disagree. http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?Data…

Re: your second point, there actually does seem to be a pretty negative correlation between working hours and GDP in the OECD statistics you link. Just sort on the average-hours-worked column and look at who's at the top and bottom: with a few outliers, the rich countries are all on the low end, and the poor countries are on the high end. The shortest hours are in the Netherlands, Germany, and Norway; while the longest are in Mexico, Korea, and Greece.

This doesn't establish that longer hours lower GDP, of course. If I had to guess on a causal direction, it'd be some mixture of [more GDP] -> [shorter hours], as well as a good helping of [better-run country] -> both shorter hours and more GDP.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#35

Post by jbernier » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 2:39 PM UTC

coreymgilmore wrote: post #2

I feel this article is a little weak in one major sense: comparing the US to European countries based on non-working time is okay, but you also need to compare a metric like GDP. Using this, the US is #6 world-wide only behind two European countries. So yes, Euros may get more time off, but the US is a way more economically powerful and productive country economically. Hurting the economy, sure people get burned out,…

But how much of that GDP is going to the workers who're putting in the long hours?

Great time to be an employer in the US.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#36

Post by octo_t » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 2:39 PM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #12

>The United States is the only advanced country that doesn't guarantee that its citizens will get paid vacation time and holidays I find the reasoning consistently maddening. What they should be saying is that there is no federal mandate for private employers to pay workers during vacation/convalescence/maternity leave. In point of fact, for government workers there is paid annual/maternity/paternity leave which ends…

> and in effect becomes a mandatory leave

this is a good thing, as the rest of the evidence presented in the OP suggests. People should take all the leave they are entitled to.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#37

Post by JackFr » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 2:41 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #8

coreymgilmore wrote: post #2

I feel this article is a little weak in one major sense: comparing the US to European countries based on non-working time is okay, but you also need to compare a metric like GDP. Using this, the US is #6 world-wide only behind two European countries. So yes, Euros may get more time off, but the US is a way more economically powerful and productive country economically. Hurting the economy, sure people get burned out,…

The US has had a GDP advantage since the second world war. But since then much of the EU has rolled out socialised medicine and more workers rights (maternity leave, mandatory vacation, even a higher minimum wage) and they haven't slipped down the rankings as a result. Understanding why the US's GDP is as positive as it is is a much bigger topic that takes us into areas like natural resources (e.g. oil, metals, etc)…

To quote Bobbi Flekman, "Money talks. Bullshit walks."

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#38

Post by autokad » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 2:41 PM UTC

thegeomaster wrote: post #10

autokad wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it also tries to state that working hard leads to less productivity, when US productivity eclipses most european countries. i had a consultant complain that they hate working with europeans. the people always go on vacation and projects get held up, and they come back and have to get oriented with everything again. by the time they catch up they are on vacation again

How big a sample size of Europeans does your consultant have? Your claim that "Europeans go on vacation and projects get held up and they can never catch up again" is... dubious at best.

i made a statement, backed it up by mentioning productivity, and then made a reference to a real world example that I have observed, unlike the article that just mostly made platitudes.

if you'd like further evidence, the EU area has an unemployment rate close to 12%. companies are not anxious to hire europeans for one reason or another.

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#39

Post by bluedino » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 2:41 PM UTC

dasil003 wrote: post #23

rayiner wrote: post #6

The article focuses on professionals, but I don't know if that's the angle I'm concerned about. American professionals work more, but they are also paid more. They also have much better vacation and leave policies. More concerning is the plight of median workers, who aren't making a lot more these days than their European counterparts, but have much worse vacation policies to deal with.

Vacation policies are the least of it. How about the lack of a safety net? Take health care. Civilized people should agree that medical care in a rich country should be available to everyone. The thought of people dying in the streets from preventable disease and injury sounds pretty horrendous. But for the past 20 years we've been fed the same fabricated FUD about socialized medicine that has no basis in reality. Pe…

>> And it turns out that this medication is not as effective as the generic that would cost $2 per pill.

What medication was it, if you don't mind me asking? And why didn't you just ask for the generic?

Many pharmacy chains in the USA offer a large list of generics for the low costs like $10/90 day supply

Re: Workaholism in America Is Hurting the Economy

#40

Post by AndrewKemendo » Tue, Jun 24, 2014, 2:42 PM UTC

octo_t wrote: post #36

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #12

>The United States is the only advanced country that doesn't guarantee that its citizens will get paid vacation time and holidays I find the reasoning consistently maddening. What they should be saying is that there is no federal mandate for private employers to pay workers during vacation/convalescence/maternity leave. In point of fact, for government workers there is paid annual/maternity/paternity leave which ends…

> and in effect becomes a mandatory leave this is a good thing, as the rest of the evidence presented in the OP suggests. People should take all the leave they are entitled to.

Absolutely, because it is the only way the US government can actually by law give American workers mandatory time off.