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Inside the Mirrortocracy

carlos.bueno.org

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Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#51

Post by facepalm »

discreteevent wrote: post #42
facepalm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people seem to expect more from their job than just a place in a cubicle where they can do their duty for 8 hours and then go home. They want to have fun, be together with cool people and so on. If you can't bond over music, there is one fun factor less (btw Michael Bolton was a reference to the movie "Office Space"). If you manage to run your company as a factory where individuality doesn't matter, only code ou…

"If you manage to run your company as a factory where individuality doesn't matter". - You don't see the irony of this in the context of your argument for rejecting people because they have different musical taste? (not programming language preference but musical taste). The point of the article and its title "mirrortocracy" is that these people are building clones of themselves because of their narrowmindedness and…

"The point of the article and its title "mirrortocracy" is that these people are building clones of themselves because of their narrowmindedness and that's increasing their chances of failure."

I know that is what they claim, but is there any proof? Anything at all? That was my question. The claim is that you should hire people you know nothing about rather than people you know something about. Like if you are from Harvard, you shouldn't hire other people from Harvard, you should hire people from some community college, who are as different from you as possible.

"This is no different than any narrowminded and now dead organisation of the past that failed to survive because they couldn't take on people who weren't "the right type". "

Which organizations you talking about? Name at least one example, please. I am not aware of such a story.

Another way to phrase the question: should you hire people you could likely be friends with? If not, why not?

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#52

Post by danielweber »

facepalm wrote: post #34
watwut wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you hiring programmer or drinking buddy? I would expect him to read blogs/news sites related to technology he used in past, because it basically means he educates himself about technology he uses. Other than that, he can read what he please. I have no reason to care whether his knowledge came from business book, programming book, Joels blog, random browsing or coursera videos, as long as that knowledge is solid (…

But isn't there a basic curiosity in some people? I have a hard time imagining somebody who truly cares about programming to learn about Joel's blog and not devouring it (I mean the earlier days, when it was still about programming). I could let it pass if they never heard about Joel, but they know lots of other interesting stuff. Or anything else, really - it is the basic difference between somebody just doing their…

1. "I do/am X."

2. Just-so story about how X is essential for good programmers (which, by definition, I am.)

3. "Therefore I interview for developers who do/are X."

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#53

Post by facepalm »

walterbell wrote: post #38
facepalm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people seem to expect more from their job than just a place in a cubicle where they can do their duty for 8 hours and then go home. They want to have fun, be together with cool people and so on. If you can't bond over music, there is one fun factor less (btw Michael Bolton was a reference to the movie "Office Space"). If you manage to run your company as a factory where individuality doesn't matter, only code ou…

What if their taste in music or people changes, as their non-work social circle evolves? Do they become less desirable employees?

It's not impossible, is it? Companies fire people they had employed for years all the time. Friends drift apart all over the world, all the time, too.

And I never said you should hire based on musical taste, just that it is possibly a relevant data point.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#54

Post by hellbreakslose »

lilsunnybee wrote: post #24
austinz wrote: post #3

That linked 42Floors blog post is terribly self-unaware. > Most startups take the building of their culture very seriously, especially when the culture is still new and quite fragile. If your culture is so fucking fragile that a guy wearing a suit (as opposed to a T-shirt and jeans) poses an existential threat to it, you need to re-evaluate whether you are actually building a company 'culture', or just some random ag…

> Sometimes we’ll have a thirty minute interview extend the rest of the day and into the evening. We don’t mandate it, and we don’t ding you if you have other plans. But when it works out organically, it’s a nice thing for everyone and it moves the process along much faster. Yeah we're not going to penalize you if you don't have your schedule completely open. Like if you have kids or commitments or something. It's co…

organic heirloom carrots? who were you interviewing steve jobs?

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#55

Post by KaiserPro »

CmonDev wrote: post #31

"It's hard to find good people to hire" Oh, come on! Where is this myth coming from? I don't know about USA, but here in London there is an over-abundance of IT workforce (what else would justify the sub £60k senior dev job offers).

Yeah but none of them are 25, thin, tall, tattooed and have boyish mustachios.

don't be hatin' bro, or what ever the vernacular is.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#56

Post by danielweber »

DanBC wrote: post #48
austinz wrote: post #3

That linked 42Floors blog post is terribly self-unaware. > Most startups take the building of their culture very seriously, especially when the culture is still new and quite fragile. If your culture is so fucking fragile that a guy wearing a suit (as opposed to a T-shirt and jeans) poses an existential threat to it, you need to re-evaluate whether you are actually building a company 'culture', or just some random ag…

The hiring practices of some US companies is really surprising. I have no idea how they avoid legal trouble.

A sufficiently aggressive lawyer just hasn't gone after them, yet.

Which, for all the nonsense this post points out, might end up being a net negative for our industry. I'd like these jokers to at least worry a little bit about it in order to stop us from entering that world.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#57

Post by danielweber »

fnordsensei wrote: post #15

Yet another absurdity from Monty Python has turned into reality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP0sqRMzkwo

The end of that video is the perfect accompaniment to the 42floors blog.

"He showed up in a suit, so he wasn't going to be hired, and we didn't tell him for the whole night! HA HA HA HA!!"

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#58

Post by danielweber »

facepalm wrote: post #47
watwut wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But isn't there a basic curiosity in some people?" Someone who does not read the same old blog as you is not curious? That does not make any sense. I checked out Joels blog now (after years) and there does seem to be anything exceptional or different then what is on gazillion other blogs. If anything, Java guy reading about Java could learn about map reduce, full text search, security, compilers, algorithms, sound p…

I'm willing to bet that you don't live up to your own standards of being friendly with people. But I think you don't even understand what I am trying to say. "I would try various topics until I find the one we can talk about." I am not talking about meeting once and making small talk. I am talking about meeting every day, for 10 years straight. Curiosity: if somebody can give me a good reason why they don't like Joel…

You think people have as little control over their musical tastes as over the color of their eyes? If they like death metal, it is just a random variation that says nothing about their personality? Or if Gangster Rap is their thing? Musical taste says nothing about personality, is that really what you believe?

I've always enjoyed finding out what's on the playlist of the great developers I work with, because I am always surprised.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#59

Post by danielweber »

JackFr wrote: post #49
facepalm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So where is the fundamental argument against monocultures? The paypal founder seems to disagree? Is it just political correctness, or is there some hard data? In theory I am all for diversity, but I can imagine that in some endeavours it helps if you get along with the people in your team. I don't think "hiring what you know" is really that much of a mistake. I would hire my friends, for example, because I already kn…

That's funny. I wouldn't hire my friends for exactly the same reason.

My friends are too valuable to lose from joining a start-up with them.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#60

Post by rayiner »

> “Well, I grabbed coffee with the founder, and I had dinner with the team last night, and then we went to a bar together.”

I'm no teetotaler, but bars can be uncomfortable to downright hostile places for the majority of people (women + people who don't drink for religious or health reasons). It's absolutely inappropriate and unprofessional to incorporate one into an interview. This is typical "old boy's club" shit, just with hipster glasses and organic carrots.

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