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Inside the Mirrortocracy

carlos.bueno.org

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Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#41

Post by wavefunction »

facepalm wrote: post #21
dkarapetyan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people live and breathe valley culture and others don't. I have met great programmers and just generally smart people on both sides of the fence. It's not the particular cultural understanding that makes them good or bad. It is usually something else. I wouldn't hold it against you if all you did in your spare time was paint portraits but for your day job you were a programmer. In fact that kind of variety in in…

So where is the fundamental argument against monocultures? The paypal founder seems to disagree? Is it just political correctness, or is there some hard data? In theory I am all for diversity, but I can imagine that in some endeavours it helps if you get along with the people in your team. I don't think "hiring what you know" is really that much of a mistake. I would hire my friends, for example, because I already kn…

I think that's the point of the poster you're replying to. You examine the merits of someone's argument, not the fact they're one of the paypal founders. That is specifically the cult of personality referred to.

Some people on this site seem to be desperate to fulfill the rituals they think will lead to success. Most of success is pure luck, combined with some preparation and ability to deliver.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#42

Post by discreteevent »

facepalm wrote: post #29
Ma8ee wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you hiring a pal or a professional? Maybe it's useful to have someone different than you who can spot a different kind of flaws than you in the latest fad framework. Who gives a damn if it is Michael Bolton in someone else's earphones.

Some people seem to expect more from their job than just a place in a cubicle where they can do their duty for 8 hours and then go home. They want to have fun, be together with cool people and so on. If you can't bond over music, there is one fun factor less (btw Michael Bolton was a reference to the movie "Office Space"). If you manage to run your company as a factory where individuality doesn't matter, only code ou…

"If you manage to run your company as a factory where individuality doesn't matter". - You don't see the irony of this in the context of your argument for rejecting people because they have different musical taste? (not programming language preference but musical taste). The point of the article and its title "mirrortocracy" is that these people are building clones of themselves because of their narrowmindedness and that's increasing their chances of failure.

This is no different than any narrowminded and now dead organisation of the past that failed to survive because they couldn't take on people who weren't "the right type". As a result they failed to even find out what they don't know, let alone how to fix it and were completely surprised when history passed them by and they became the butt of the joke. (Mind you the 42 floors article is a parody in itself so we don't have to wait for the joke)

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#43

Post by gdewilde »

facepalm wrote: post #21
dkarapetyan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people live and breathe valley culture and others don't. I have met great programmers and just generally smart people on both sides of the fence. It's not the particular cultural understanding that makes them good or bad. It is usually something else. I wouldn't hold it against you if all you did in your spare time was paint portraits but for your day job you were a programmer. In fact that kind of variety in in…

So where is the fundamental argument against monocultures? The paypal founder seems to disagree? Is it just political correctness, or is there some hard data? In theory I am all for diversity, but I can imagine that in some endeavours it helps if you get along with the people in your team. I don't think "hiring what you know" is really that much of a mistake. I would hire my friends, for example, because I already kn…

Oh, let me enlighten you,

People do what it takes to get a job. With the exception of 3 or 4 people you really know, that friend of yours, thats not a real friend, he couldn't care less about you. What you have is an employee skilled in pretending to be your friend.

It was the only job requirement!

You met him because you "accidentally" ran into him. You get along with him because he is a great performer. He likes the same music, wears the same cloths, has the same hobbies etc etc. You don't know who he is, it is all make believe, he doesn't even like organic carrots. When you close the door behind you he is glad you are gone.

You've recruited a psychopath[0] who smiles pretty when you desire it. If he doesn't smile you might fire him! Smiling at you is the only skill required to get the job and the tenure. He doesn't have real skills or at least very crappy ones.

If he didn't start out like that you can still make a real friend into one. Might take a few years before they get tired of your ravings about organic carrots. That way they can gradually practice the act you desire from them.

I suppose it is a bit like the credit card wife.

[0] - http://www.wikihow.com/Identify-a-Psychopath

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#44

Post by danielweber »

austinz wrote: post #3

That linked 42Floors blog post is terribly self-unaware. > Most startups take the building of their culture very seriously, especially when the culture is still new and quite fragile. If your culture is so fucking fragile that a guy wearing a suit (as opposed to a T-shirt and jeans) poses an existential threat to it, you need to re-evaluate whether you are actually building a company 'culture', or just some random ag…

It's pretty sad how people become exactly that which they hate.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#45

Post by facepalm »

tempodox wrote: post #32
facepalm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am asking you why you think it is important. I am not really interested in "beliefs". It seems curious that it is automatically assumed that diversity is beneficial. As I said, maybe there is a reason why your pals are your pals and you work better together with them than with strangers. I guess I believe that a company does not have a moral obligation to foster diversity and social mobility. It is possible that a…

I am asking you why you _think_ it is important. I am not really interested in "beliefs". Technically, asking someone why they think , is asking about their believes. Does that seem logical to you?

Well you can give some reasons for your beliefs. Sure, at the end you probably always arrive at some core belief that is the basic for everything. But that core (axioms) might be more or less deep. You are asking me to believe something at face value, just because it is politically correct.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#46

Post by tragic »

minikomi wrote: post #17
austinz wrote: post #3

That linked 42Floors blog post is terribly self-unaware. > Most startups take the building of their culture very seriously, especially when the culture is still new and quite fragile. If your culture is so fucking fragile that a guy wearing a suit (as opposed to a T-shirt and jeans) poses an existential threat to it, you need to re-evaluate whether you are actually building a company 'culture', or just some random ag…

To think, all this time, I've been bringing non-organic carrots to interviews. Oh the shame.

I wouldn't want to work for a start-up that wasn't happy with a box of Micro Chips and a tin of special brew.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#47

Post by facepalm »

watwut wrote: post #37
facepalm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't there a basic curiosity in some people? I have a hard time imagining somebody who truly cares about programming to learn about Joel's blog and not devouring it (I mean the earlier days, when it was still about programming). I could let it pass if they never heard about Joel, but they know lots of other interesting stuff. Or anything else, really - it is the basic difference between somebody just doing their…

"But isn't there a basic curiosity in some people?" Someone who does not read the same old blog as you is not curious? That does not make any sense. I checked out Joels blog now (after years) and there does seem to be anything exceptional or different then what is on gazillion other blogs. If anything, Java guy reading about Java could learn about map reduce, full text search, security, compilers, algorithms, sound p…

I'm willing to bet that you don't live up to your own standards of being friendly with people. But I think you don't even understand what I am trying to say.

"I would try various topics until I find the one we can talk about."

I am not talking about meeting once and making small talk. I am talking about meeting every day, for 10 years straight.

Curiosity: if somebody can give me a good reason why they don't like Joel, OK. But if they have never heard of him, it seems likely they are not curious about programming. Btw please mention some of the other gazillion blogs that say the same things? (Refer to the top list he has in the sidebar)

"You might as well hire on color of their eyes."

You think people have as little control over their musical tastes as over the color of their eyes? If they like death metal, it is just a random variation that says nothing about their personality? Or if Gangster Rap is their thing? Musical taste says nothing about personality, is that really what you believe?

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#48

Post by DanBC »

austinz wrote: post #3

That linked 42Floors blog post is terribly self-unaware. > Most startups take the building of their culture very seriously, especially when the culture is still new and quite fragile. If your culture is so fucking fragile that a guy wearing a suit (as opposed to a T-shirt and jeans) poses an existential threat to it, you need to re-evaluate whether you are actually building a company 'culture', or just some random ag…

The hiring practices of some US companies is really surprising.

I have no idea how they avoid legal trouble.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#49

Post by JackFr »

facepalm wrote: post #21
dkarapetyan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people live and breathe valley culture and others don't. I have met great programmers and just generally smart people on both sides of the fence. It's not the particular cultural understanding that makes them good or bad. It is usually something else. I wouldn't hold it against you if all you did in your spare time was paint portraits but for your day job you were a programmer. In fact that kind of variety in in…

So where is the fundamental argument against monocultures? The paypal founder seems to disagree? Is it just political correctness, or is there some hard data? In theory I am all for diversity, but I can imagine that in some endeavours it helps if you get along with the people in your team. I don't think "hiring what you know" is really that much of a mistake. I would hire my friends, for example, because I already kn…

That's funny. I wouldn't hire my friends for exactly the same reason.

Re: Inside the Mirrortocracy

#50

Post by hellbreakslose »

I wouldn't like to work at your company in a million years... What kind of way is "come for a coffee with us" I got my own friends Nerd. My colleagues are my colleagues. I don't say I'll be rude to them or I won't be a nice person to work with... But if I don't have the time for your skateboarding or your coffee I won't have.

Your company sounds the ideal company for people with no families no friends, no life ... literally no life.

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