Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request • Hacker News Board

Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request

#51

Post by GHFigs » Sat, Jun 21, 2014, 7:15 PM UTC

themartorana wrote: post #18

nickff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The corporations are not the problem here, it would be much simpler if they were. Elected and appointed government officials seem to have a strong desire to create their vision of a pleasant and orderly society, whatever the costs. These people generally appear to believe that so long as 'enlightened' people (such as themselves) are in charge, nothing bad can result.

I think it's quite interesting that - perhaps to my tinfoil-hat side - we're ending up somewhere between Orwell and Huxley. - Orwell feared the truth would be actively concealed. Check. - Huxley feared distractions would be so great that no one (or very few people) would care to seek the truth. Check. - Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Check. - Huxley feared we would become obsessed with consumerism a…

this great comic strip

Talking points from this great book: "Amusing Ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman, from 1985: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_ourselves_to_death

Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request

#52

Post by MaysonL » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 7:34 AM UTC

themartorana wrote: post #18

nickff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The corporations are not the problem here, it would be much simpler if they were. Elected and appointed government officials seem to have a strong desire to create their vision of a pleasant and orderly society, whatever the costs. These people generally appear to believe that so long as 'enlightened' people (such as themselves) are in charge, nothing bad can result.

I think it's quite interesting that - perhaps to my tinfoil-hat side - we're ending up somewhere between Orwell and Huxley. - Orwell feared the truth would be actively concealed. Check. - Huxley feared distractions would be so great that no one (or very few people) would care to seek the truth. Check. - Orwell feared we would become a captive culture. Check. - Huxley feared we would become obsessed with consumerism a…

Not to speak of perpetual war... [1984]

And divide and conquer politics [Animal Farm]

Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request

#53

Post by MaysonL » Sun, Jun 22, 2014, 7:47 AM UTC

jqm wrote: post #41

codyb wrote: post #12

I'm not sure what to say. Mostly I'm just frightened for the future. It's very disheartening to watch civil liberties be dismantled so rapidly. When you combine this with the secret transatlantic talks for the proliferation of extremely large multinational corporations and the rapid militarization of the police, it almost feels as if there might be a coup being slowly but silently executed right under our noses. And…

Probably not much will be done by the general public as long as the milk and honey keep flowing..... This is the real trick for our leaders (or usurpers or whoever they are). Keeping a chicken in every pot and two cars in each garage. They start failing at this and suddenly the citizenry might miraculously become concerned about "rights" and "liberty". And... I might point out, in spite of NSA, in spite of a possibly…

I wonder what the current percentage of the electorate who are dissatisfied with their own Congressional representative is? Last I heard, with national dissatisfaction at Congress as a whole about 90%, that number was at its high point ever, about 35%.

Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request

#54

Post by talmand » Mon, Jun 23, 2014, 2:54 PM UTC

click170 wrote: post #11

talmand wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tool so valuable that both local police, plus the Federal government, will break numerous laws and trample on the rights of citizens to protect the secret of its existence. An existence so secret that the only people to understand the possibility of its existence is anyone who's been paying attention the last decade. So secret in fact, that the Wikipedia page is only about three years old. I don't care how valuable…

First, I agree with everything you said whole-heartedly. I don't believe that most cops out there actually have an intent to do evil, or to trample your rights though. They deal with criminal after criminal after criminal, I think their perspective is more likely that these tools and methods help solve cases quicker and there-for save taxpayer money and that us civilians aren't able to see that perspective. I think t…

Evil is a road paved with good intentions, or it goes something like that.

There's no nothing wrong with starting a dialogue with "hey! this thing you are doing is wrong!" and I will continue to do so. I try not to judge too harshly on just that though. I hold back the anger in reserve to see how they react once it starts coming to light. Covering up the existence of potential wrongdoing, keep in mind the courts could likely say the tactic is legal, does not bode well for appearances.

Re: Cops hid use of phone tracking tech in court documents at feds’ request

#55

Post by talmand » Mon, Jun 23, 2014, 3:01 PM UTC

tbyehl wrote: post #13

talmand wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it would be considered perjury, but I would imagine it easily falls under withholding evidence from the defendant, of which is entitled to such information for their defense. But I doubt there would be any prosecutions on this because the people to prosecute such things are the the people who benefit from the technology.

Is it evidence? Sounds like they're using it to locate people who are already wanted by law enforcement, not to gather evidence of a crime. What's the recourse there?

To me, although not a lawyer, doesn't matter. This is just my gut instinct of what is right.

If a person is a defendant then that person has the right to face all the evidence being used against them. If the defendant feels that a certain part of evidence gathering was done illegally then they have the ability to question that gathering in court, of which the court will decide the legality of the gathering method. If the prosecution has the ability to conceal methods of evidence gathering then that means the defendant has no recourse.

If a person is under investigation, the police use a method to locate and/or track the suspect, and that method ultimately leads to an arrest because of where they happen to be while being located and/or tracked then I feel it should be included as evidence.

But I'm not familiar with court cases concerning such technology so it's possible that all this has already been decided and I just haven't heard of it.