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Things You Love are Made with Code

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Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#51

Post by jiggy2011 »

DanBC wrote: post #13
schoen wrote: post #10

I'm curious about the use of the terminology "code/coding/coder" as distinct from "programming/programmer". I've noticed that a lot of recent programming outreach and education efforts consistently use "learn to code" instead of "learn to program". How come? What connotations do they perceive? Are they intending to refer to a broader set of activities (including document markup, which I wouldn't refer to as programmi…

"Coding" is using a computer language to create software. "Programming" is a superset of that, and includes planning and psuedocodes and etc. As an example of that use see "Jackson Structured Programming" which spends a lot of time drawing little boxes and includes coding right at the end.

Do you ever write code without doing any planning?

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#52

Post by mrgn »

adamnemecek wrote: post #42
mrgn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and the answer why should be blindingly obvious to any intelligent person: computer engineering (as opposed to your chosen examples of truck driving childcare, and auto repair) is among the most well-paid, economically influential, and entrepreneurial profession today, and will become increasingly so in the future. Gender and race representation is simply of less concern for less aspirational, lower-paid professi…

So it's about equality and equal gender representation only in well paying professions? Doesn't sound all that equal to me.

Perhaps you didn't read closely, but the fact that computer engineering is a well-paid profession is only a result of its demand, influence and importance to the future economy. Devoting equal time and resources encouraging people to abandon higher education in order to pursue unskilled labor may sound like "equality" to you, but hardly seems like a sound strategy for the economy or any industry.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#53

Post by [deleted] »

adamnemecek wrote: post #42
mrgn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and the answer why should be blindingly obvious to any intelligent person: computer engineering (as opposed to your chosen examples of truck driving childcare, and auto repair) is among the most well-paid, economically influential, and entrepreneurial profession today, and will become increasingly so in the future. Gender and race representation is simply of less concern for less aspirational, lower-paid professi…

So it's about equality and equal gender representation only in well paying professions? Doesn't sound all that equal to me.

[deleted]

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#54

Post by adamnemecek »

mrgn wrote: post #52
adamnemecek wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's about equality and equal gender representation only in well paying professions? Doesn't sound all that equal to me.

Perhaps you didn't read closely, but the fact that computer engineering is a well-paid profession is only a result of its demand, influence and importance to the future economy. Devoting equal time and resources encouraging people to abandon higher education in order to pursue unskilled labor may sound like "equality" to you, but hardly seems like a sound strategy for the economy or any industry.

Well but all these initiatives are not so much about encouraging all people, but mostly women it appears.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#55

Post by mrgn »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #49
mrgn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diversity isn't a zero sum game. STEM is one of the fastest growing professional fields, meaning more people--of any gender--will need to fill those jobs. The goal is gender balance, there's no need to fear that a woman or a person of color accepting a newly created STEM job will somehow push a white man out of his existing position. Let's be realistic here.

Perhaps, but I could take these arguments more seriously if western countries weren't so excited about issuing more visas for tech workers. It's also possible that we have a tech bubble that people are wisely avoiding.

For that to make sense you'd really have to believe that the US will need fewer, not more, STEM jobs in the future. The vast majority of educated STEM workers and engineers are completely removed from venture-funded Silicon Valley startups and any potential 'tech bubble.'

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#56

Post by jiggy2011 »

mrgn wrote: post #55
jiggy2011 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but I could take these arguments more seriously if western countries weren't so excited about issuing more visas for tech workers. It's also possible that we have a tech bubble that people are wisely avoiding.

For that to make sense you'd really have to believe that the US will need fewer, not more, STEM jobs in the future. The vast majority of educated STEM workers and engineers are completely removed from venture-funded Silicon Valley startups and any potential 'tech bubble.'

It depends on what ratio you seek and what growth you think you will get. For example if you aim for a 50% gender split but only get 10% growth.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#57

Post by ProAm »

judk wrote: post #48
ProAm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| you should know the limits of your skill so you don't cause others harm Which is funny how the 'hacker' mentality is to build things fast and cheap. Along with Zuckerberg's "Most fast and break things" mantra.

Moved fast and broke the quotation.

Which quotation? [1]

[1] http://rack.3.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDE0LzA0LzMwL2ZjL1p1Y2tlc...

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#58

Post by DanBC »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #51
DanBC wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Coding" is using a computer language to create software. "Programming" is a superset of that, and includes planning and psuedocodes and etc. As an example of that use see "Jackson Structured Programming" which spends a lot of time drawing little boxes and includes coding right at the end.

Do you ever write code without doing any planning?

No, I never write code without doing the programming first. Coding is converting the planning into whatever language you're using.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#59

Post by DanBC »

colmvp wrote: post #24

I'm curious, are there growing initiatives to make every career gender/race balanced? Because it seems like we're fixated on getting female representation in computer/mathematical occupations from 26.1% to 50%. Yet there are lot other occupations which have pretty low representations, i.e. only 1.6% of architects are black, 0.1% of judges/magistrates are Asian, only 1.8% of automotive repairers are women, only 5.2% o…

Yes, there are programs to make other occupations diverse. This point has been made very many times on HN before -- every time a thread like this happens someone will make exactly the same point as you.

I'm surprised that you managed to get statistics about the disparities without also finding information about the various programs to increase diversity. They need to publicise those better.

Re: Things You Love are Made with Code

#60

Post by snowwrestler »

tjr wrote: post #44
Lewisham wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I remembered where the study was now, but I remember reading one which said that girls were naturally curious about STEM careers, up to around 12, when it starts to tail off dramatically. The theory was that societal issues begin to kick in that makes girls not want to: no role models, fellow students telling them it's for nerds and no girls do it, male jock stuff. So the curiosity and talent is just drained o…

Don't similar societal issues also turn off many boys to STEM around the same age? I was definitely not in the larger, more popular bunch of kids starting around 10 years old.

Whatever the effect is, it's obviously stronger with girls given the ratio of adult men to adult women in STEM.

Which is the whole point of these sorts of programs, of course. The issue is not that some people don't go into STEM, the issue is that there is something about STEM that repels girls and women far more strongly than boys and men.

And since there is nothing inherent to STEM jobs that is in conflict with women's capabilities (doesn't require extremes of height, strength, weight, etc.), it seems likely that the issue is social factors, which can be changed with effort.

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