Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still) • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#61

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 4:36 PM UTC

opendais wrote: post #50

sdrinf wrote: post #14

Here's a working hypothesis: | Why is Amazon's security for replacement orders so lax? Amazon values customer satisfiction above their fraud write-off. | Why would they send a replacement to an address that has never been associated with me, and is in a wholly different state than the one the original item was sent to? Because the time between ordering an item, and defect can be sufficiently large to cover moves: peo…

> Amazon values customer satisfiction above their fraud write-off. I doubt this is the case. I've had to place chargebacks against Amazon to get my money back for purchases that were not delivered due to Amazon screwing up and telling the vendor that the software key(s) were not purchased. For anything software related, they offer no refunds even when they and/or their vendor screw up to the point the product is unus…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#62

Post by bkeroack » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 4:56 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #56

bkeroack wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change your registered domain address! There's basically no upside to having your "real" address listed.

What should I put instead? Isn't a bogus address grounds for ICANN to take your domain name away?

Maybe technically (or maybe not--never bothered to check), but I've never heard of it ever happening.

I usually put a legitimate address that's in the same city (and sometimes the same general area). Where I actually live is completely irrelevant wrt DNS and I can think of no reason to have it trivially available to anyone who can do a WHOIS.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#63

Post by teach » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 6:11 PM UTC

gellpak wrote: post #54

Is it really that hard to craft a title that uses normal english? For example: "Amazon orders are still subject to replacement fraud" There, I won't have to sit there and swap emphasis in my head until it makes sense with that one.

Newspaper headlines very often omit linking verbs (am, is, are, etc) when they can be inferred from context to make room for more important words.

They probably don't have much use on a web page except to sound like a newspaper headline.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#64

Post by jwdunne » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 6:19 PM UTC

justincormack wrote: post #26

jwdunne wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall, to deliver to a new address, Amazon requires you to verify by entering the card details you are using for the purchase, to prevent fraud. They should be doing the same here.

Maybe that fails for zero cost items like this as there is no card being used?

But if its a return, surely they can pair it with the original purchase, inc. the address and card used?

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#65

Post by jdminhbg » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 6:46 PM UTC

opendais wrote: post #50

sdrinf wrote: post #14

Here's a working hypothesis: | Why is Amazon's security for replacement orders so lax? Amazon values customer satisfiction above their fraud write-off. | Why would they send a replacement to an address that has never been associated with me, and is in a wholly different state than the one the original item was sent to? Because the time between ordering an item, and defect can be sufficiently large to cover moves: peo…

> Amazon values customer satisfiction above their fraud write-off. I doubt this is the case. I've had to place chargebacks against Amazon to get my money back for purchases that were not delivered due to Amazon screwing up and telling the vendor that the software key(s) were not purchased. For anything software related, they offer no refunds even when they and/or their vendor screw up to the point the product is unus…

> I doubt this is the case. I've had to place chargebacks against Amazon to get my money back for purchases that were not delivered due to Amazon screwing up and telling the vendor that the software key(s) were not purchased.

There may be a difference between how they treat physical and digital purchases then, because my experience (and the experience of vast numbers of internet commenters) is that Amazon will refund or replace a physical order with basically zero investigation.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#66

Post by deltron » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 6:55 PM UTC

I bet there's a thread on socialengineered dot net about this. I'd do a google search for "site:socialengineered(dot)net amazon replacement"

Obviously I'm not going to link to a scam site, but you can get in through and read the articles through Google so you don't have to register with them. I saw this site with another Amazon scam where people were requesting refunds saying not shipped, etc.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#67

Post by georgemcbay » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 6:58 PM UTC

jastorific wrote: post #41

I used to be an Amazon customer service rep. I know for a fact that replacements can only be sent to the original address. However, you can change the address after the order's been made. Calling into customer service to change this address is going to be risky, so doing it self-serve online is probably what's being done here. These hackers had access to your account I suspect.

Thanks for the insider info. One question I have though is if they did have access to my account and are able to change addresses after an order is made online, why not go for the gusto and make really expensive orders using my on-file credit card numbers instead of just doing replacement items?

In any case, I've changed both my password and my email address on Amazon, so if they did have access to the account that should solve that issue for now. The whole situation has made me paranoid enough that I'm considering creating a locked-down custom VM used solely for Amazon shopping.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#68

Post by georgemcbay » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 7:03 PM UTC

gellpak wrote: post #54

Is it really that hard to craft a title that uses normal english? For example: "Amazon orders are still subject to replacement fraud" There, I won't have to sit there and swap emphasis in my head until it makes sense with that one.

Sorry if the title is confusing, it reflects my thought process as I was figuring out what was going on here in that the title I was going to use was "Amazon orders are subject to replacement fraud" and then I learned about the fact that this has been going on for quite some time and was reported on quite a bit back in 2012 (though I hadn't personally heard of it back then, as far as I remember), thus the added "(still)".

But.. yeah, I can see how that would be confusing as a lead-in.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#69

Post by justincormack » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 7:06 PM UTC

jwdunne wrote: post #64

justincormack wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that fails for zero cost items like this as there is no card being used?

But if its a return, surely they can pair it with the original purchase, inc. the address and card used?

The card might have expired and be destroyed, so you could have a valid reason for not being able to produce the number.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#70

Post by opendais » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 7:35 PM UTC

jdminhbg wrote: post #65

opendais wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Amazon values customer satisfiction above their fraud write-off. I doubt this is the case. I've had to place chargebacks against Amazon to get my money back for purchases that were not delivered due to Amazon screwing up and telling the vendor that the software key(s) were not purchased. For anything software related, they offer no refunds even when they and/or their vendor screw up to the point the product is unus…

> I doubt this is the case. I've had to place chargebacks against Amazon to get my money back for purchases that were not delivered due to Amazon screwing up and telling the vendor that the software key(s) were not purchased. There may be a difference between how they treat physical and digital purchases then, because my experience (and the experience of vast numbers of internet commenters) is that Amazon will refund…

Yes, they have different policies depending on what you purchase and whom you purchase it from.

Frequently with physical products Amazon is able to place the majority cost [they only lose out on their commission] of the refund onto the supplier. [e.g. If Amazon's fraud check fails to catch a fraudulent order, they push the cost of the chargeback onto the supplier if it is a FBA or MFN item. They also do this if their system screws up and merges multiple products onto the same ASIN even tho they are different colors or whatever.]

My guess is the vendor in this instance was large enough Amazon had to make a different deal where Amazon was the one eating the refunds if it was Amazon's error. The vendor blamed Amazon. Amazon couldn't even figure out I issued a chargeback and successfully disputed it for my money back.