Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still) • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#21

Post by gambiting » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 8:54 AM UTC

lvs wrote: post #5

Are you somehow on the hook to return a defective item because of these replacement requests?

Nope. I had my Kindle replaced 3 times, and never had to send the old ones back, even though I said to the rep that I have no problem with that.

Basically the original Paperwhite had a wifi bug where in a presence of certain SSIDs it would crash the wifi driver and the wifi would stop working entirely. So I would ring up amazon,explain the situation, they would send me a new paperwhite, the same thing would happen, rinse&repeat. They never acknowledged that it's actually a bug in their software,they just kept sending me new paperwhites. After I got 4 of them, I finally managed to convince the person on the phone that sending me new paperwhites does not fix my problem, and they agreed to send me the new paperwhite 2 - which did indeed fix the problem. I was told explicitly that I don't have to send the old kindles back - but they are blocked from joining the Amazon network again, so you can only use them offline. Still, looks like a massive waste for Amazon,but I guess it's like nothing for them.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#22

Post by gambiting » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 8:56 AM UTC

disillusioned wrote: post #10

jacobgreenleaf wrote: post #3

I would think that if Amazon is failing to rectify the problem, then they at least have a very clear and obvious incentive to do so.

It's extremely straightforward: they value customer satisfaction considerably above their own fraud write-offs. That's literally it. It's a bit silly, because there are a number of measures the CSRs could take to prevent someone with JUST your email, address, and name from accessing your account (Netflix asks for a "call in code" visible when you're logged into the site, for instance), but they don't. The CSRs are in…

Yup. I had the same thing with Logitech - my mouse broke while I was visiting my parents in an entirely different country, and they sent me a replacement there, without having to send the old one back. I just explained I was on vacation and it was fine,they just asked me to give them the new address.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#23

Post by rtpg » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 8:57 AM UTC

The way this is played up makes it sound like a security issue, but it's a social issue above all else.

A story I've been meaning to write for a while, but aligns well with this: I bought a kindle a while back, with the (kinda expensive) case because I knew I would break the screen if I didn't.

I broke the screen anyways (some badly aligned books in my bag I think). I sent a kinda annoyed email at amazon about how their case didn't seem to help me much.

The next morning somebody from Amazon called me, trying to help me out with seeing if they could fix the screen (reboot style things). I was fairly confident I destroyed the screen, but they offered to replace it for me for free if I sent them back the old one at their cost.

The issue was that I was heading off to Japan the day after (from France), and so it would be a bit complicated for me to go to the post office on a sunday night to send it off. Instead, they offered to just send me the replacement to my address in Japan, no questions asked.

At no point did I prove anything about my story, I could have walked away with 2 Kindles (granted, one is probably blacklisted now, if I put it online). They did know I had bought one recently (which let them get my phone number through my account), but still.

Amazon has some pretty great customer service, and honestly requiring "proof" would, although for a rational human being would seem normal, have caused me great grief and I would just think about my 300g brick that I used for all of 1 week.

Anyways, I like Amazon a lot more than I probably should and take any opportunity to tell this story. Fraud is the small cost to pay compared to the goodwill you end up with by trusting (or at least pretending to trust) your customers.

The wifi on the replacement Kindle stopped working though... been too lazy to figure out why though.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#24

Post by Fuxy » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 8:59 AM UTC

largote wrote: post #16

sdrinf wrote: post #14

Here's a working hypothesis: | Why is Amazon's security for replacement orders so lax? Amazon values customer satisfiction above their fraud write-off. | Why would they send a replacement to an address that has never been associated with me, and is in a wholly different state than the one the original item was sent to? Because the time between ordering an item, and defect can be sufficiently large to cover moves: peo…

Because someone can argue that they don't have access to their email right now (on a trip or something). Or that the associated email has "been hacked".

You can access email from just about anywhere with a internet connection.

It's not Netflix you don't need to stream anything any crappy connection will do.

I find it hard to believe you're unable to check your email for weeks. Unless you don't want to but then don't complain at that time.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#25

Post by psykovsky » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 9:03 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #12

Could this just be a database querying problem, and maybe no items were actually shipped as a result?

Nah... It's only a case of not reading the article...

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#26

Post by justincormack » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 9:20 AM UTC

jwdunne wrote: post #6

quackerhacker wrote: post #2

Amazing that the scammer is even able to have the fraudulent replacement item sent to a different address than where the order was originally sent not once, but twice and an address not associated with the account nor confirmed/verified and could possibly be linked to multiple accounts. Seems like a blatant oversight in loss prevention and fraudulent data sifting. Not only does it admit that an account has been compr…

If I recall, to deliver to a new address, Amazon requires you to verify by entering the card details you are using for the purchase, to prevent fraud. They should be doing the same here.

Maybe that fails for zero cost items like this as there is no card being used?

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#27

Post by lilt12345 » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 9:41 AM UTC

Yodel (especially poor UK courier) lost an expensive item once. Once I got through to a human at Amazon, they took me at my word and the replacement item was on its way that day. A few weeks later the original turned up, looking very battered.

The amount of goodwill I have towards Amazon because of that experience is tremendous. I took out Prime, and I look there first for everything now. I can absolutely see that being worth the shrinkage.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#28

Post by lmm » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 9:43 AM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #23

The way this is played up makes it sound like a security issue, but it's a social issue above all else. A story I've been meaning to write for a while, but aligns well with this: I bought a kindle a while back, with the (kinda expensive) case because I knew I would break the screen if I didn't. I broke the screen anyways (some badly aligned books in my bag I think). I sent a kinda annoyed email at amazon about how th…

> The wifi on the replacement Kindle stopped working though... been too lazy to figure out why though.

It's worth raising that within the first year, after that they stop doing free replacements.

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#29

Post by andyhmltn » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 10:06 AM UTC

lmm wrote: post #28

rtpg wrote: post #23

The way this is played up makes it sound like a security issue, but it's a social issue above all else. A story I've been meaning to write for a while, but aligns well with this: I bought a kindle a while back, with the (kinda expensive) case because I knew I would break the screen if I didn't. I broke the screen anyways (some badly aligned books in my bag I think). I sent a kinda annoyed email at amazon about how th…

> The wifi on the replacement Kindle stopped working though... been too lazy to figure out why though. It's worth raising that within the first year, after that they stop doing free replacements.

Pretty certain the free replacement thing lasts more than a year does it not? I replaced one of my older kindles because of a screen issue recently

Re: Amazon orders subject to replacement fraud (still)

#30

Post by jebus989 » Thu, Jun 12, 2014, 10:23 AM UTC

Presumably there's some Durden-esque equation for costing this, wherein increased earnings from customer retention and goodwill more than offset estimated losses through fraud.