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Why we're suing the CIA

muckrock.com

41–50 of 81 posts

Re: Why we're suing the CIA

#41
post #37
post #9

As bad as governmental abuses can be in the U.S. I find it somewhat comforting that suing the CIA doesn't mean some people are going to start disappearing. I'm guessing not too many Russians sued the KGB.

If cold war communist Russia became the limit now, I'm sorry to say that we're screwed.

"Phew! I'm glad we're not the USSR yet!"

Re: Why we're suing the CIA

#42
post #10
post #9

As bad as governmental abuses can be in the U.S. I find it somewhat comforting that suing the CIA doesn't mean some people are going to start disappearing. I'm guessing not too many Russians sued the KGB.

Also, the fact that you have the freedom to discuss and criticize CIA on a public forum. A strong democracy's pros outweigh its cons by a large margin - almost always.

yeah, you can speak and discuss all you want on internet. That will cause some big changes for the CIA I'm sure.

As a french humorist (Coluche) used to say :

Tyranny is 'shut the fuck up'

Democracy is 'Talk to the hand'

Re: Why we're suing the CIA

#43
post #40
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing a rigged game is never a threat to the game-rigger. Do more than that[0][1] and the kid gloves come off. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_%28journalist... [1] http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coo...

The second link looks particularly scary. Does anyone have a rebuttal to this?

Peeling off the grandstanding, hyperbolic huffing and puffing, what's left is that the law enforcement response to the nationally coordinated Occupy movement was nationally coordinated.

Re: Why we're suing the CIA

#44
post #39
post #9

As bad as governmental abuses can be in the U.S. I find it somewhat comforting that suing the CIA doesn't mean some people are going to start disappearing. I'm guessing not too many Russians sued the KGB.

It's a shame you would compare a Developed country, supposedly one of the best, with one that's knows to be not so good. It's like comparing your sports team to one that consistently finishes low on the ladder - your team will always look good, even when they are far from the top. If you want a comparison that will lead to improvement, compare your country to those known to have excellent human rights and freedom of…

Please name some countries with excellent human rights and freedom of information track records.

The OP compared one member of the UN Security Council with another. There are five permanent members.

Are any of the UNSC on your list?

Re: Why we're suing the CIA

#45
post #44
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame you would compare a Developed country, supposedly one of the best, with one that's knows to be not so good. It's like comparing your sports team to one that consistently finishes low on the ladder - your team will always look good, even when they are far from the top. If you want a comparison that will lead to improvement, compare your country to those known to have excellent human rights and freedom of…

Please name some countries with excellent human rights and freedom of information track records. The OP compared one member of the UN Security Council with another. There are five permanent members. Are any of the UNSC on your list?

There would be France and the UK. Why do you consider the UNSC as an interesting subset when comparing governmental abuses? This is a genuine question.

Re: Why we're suing the CIA

#46
post #39
post #9

As bad as governmental abuses can be in the U.S. I find it somewhat comforting that suing the CIA doesn't mean some people are going to start disappearing. I'm guessing not too many Russians sued the KGB.

It's a shame you would compare a Developed country, supposedly one of the best, with one that's knows to be not so good. It's like comparing your sports team to one that consistently finishes low on the ladder - your team will always look good, even when they are far from the top. If you want a comparison that will lead to improvement, compare your country to those known to have excellent human rights and freedom of…

The problem here is that it's hard, if not impossible, to judge the two countries in such single-dimensional way.

For example if we would take into account the incarceration rate, USA has a higher one than Russia.

On a more subtle analysis, it's unfortunately possible that there is actually a (undergoing) way to silence dissidence, which is "just" different from directly killing people, for example legal rape, or manufacturing of doubt, just to mention a few.

Essentially, I think that there's no such direct comparison, and constructive analysis should take into account many many factors and contexts.

Re: Why we're suing the CIA

#47
post #39
post #9

As bad as governmental abuses can be in the U.S. I find it somewhat comforting that suing the CIA doesn't mean some people are going to start disappearing. I'm guessing not too many Russians sued the KGB.

It's a shame you would compare a Developed country, supposedly one of the best, with one that's knows to be not so good. It's like comparing your sports team to one that consistently finishes low on the ladder - your team will always look good, even when they are far from the top. If you want a comparison that will lead to improvement, compare your country to those known to have excellent human rights and freedom of…

I'd argue that the US lost its reputation as "one of the best" quite some time ago. Communist Russia is probably still an overly contrasting comparison point - the US is not as bad as that - but compared to countries that are actually among "the best", the US has been quite low down the rankings for some time now.

So actually the OP's comparison seems fair. "The US may be bad these days, but at least it's not (yet) as bad as some of the worst in history!"

Re: Why we're suing the CIA

#48
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be directly associated to the democratic process for electing a government, but I think you'll find that it's still closely related to democracy in general. Democracy is fundamentally anchored on the idea that the legitimate right to govern derives from the people, not from the sword or from the blessing of a priest. This means that governments exist to serve the people, not the other way around. The freed…

Fun historical fact: In medieval Karantania[1] the "king" was appointed and crowned by the people. He still inherited his title and whatnot, but had to be approved by his people and a free peasant performed the coronation. So, not a democracy, but right to govern still derives from the people. It has been done. From wikipedia: > The ritual was performed in the Slovene language by a free peasant who, selected by his p…

Beats the crap out of 'ordained by the heavens'. What never ceases to amaze me is that good solutions to lots of things have been found over time and were lost again.

Re: Why we're suing the CIA

#50
post #9

As bad as governmental abuses can be in the U.S. I find it somewhat comforting that suing the CIA doesn't mean some people are going to start disappearing. I'm guessing not too many Russians sued the KGB.

maybe not disappearing, but discredeting and imprisoning (Snowden, gitmo) to serve the same effect.
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