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The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

newyorker.com

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Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#21
post #10
post #8

In the lower grades, I think a case can be made that during the time they are in class, students should not have any other demands on their time. In contrast, with college students, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that -- at least occasionally -- a student may need to "check out" from a lecture momentarily to deal with some pressing business, even if it means that he has to spend time later asking a classmat…

That's what your phone is for.

I had a couple of professors that didn't allow cell phone use in their classes, and it was annoying, for all the reasons the original poster listed.

I can understand not letting high school students use phones, but in college you are an adult with sometimes conflicting responsibilities.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#22

If instructors really wanted to raise the quality of their classroom environments, instead of banning laptops, they'd commit to posting all their lectures, slides and announcements online and tell students that if they don't want to be there in person that they don't need to be. Many people don't see the point in being physically present to hear someone talk and point at slides. Those that do, and aren't just attendi…

Because a good lecturer will do more than just read off his or her slides, and if they tell students the slides will be available than many of them won't show up, and will miss out good material.

Video-recording the lectures is another thing entirely, but if the students are going to actually go to the trouble of watching them they may as well actually come to class where they can ask questions, get feedback, and get involved in class exercises.

(I do realize that there are lots of horrible lecturers out there who do nothing more than read off the PowerPoint that comes with the textbook, but I think the correct approach to that is to re-work the tenure system to promote good lecturers as well as good researchers, not abolish lectures.)

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#23
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally would be absolutely hamstrung without a laptop in meetings. My own handwriting is notoriously messy (I am only to blame for not practicing it enough to be any good, but that's almost a tradeoff for working in front of a computer nearly 24/7) and FAR slower than typing. I'm also unable to use text editor style shortcuts,reformat after the fact for clarity, or readily keep track off/move around documents.…

The people in the meeting should be participating in the meeting. The meeting needs a fast and accurate note taker to shorthand or type what everyone is saying and distribute those notes. That leaves you free to make the important notes and mark your action points. (This can be paper or laptop).

Is the optimal situation where everyone can see what the note-taker is writing? Has anyone done this?

To stay engaged, I've used the scrawl now and type later method, which means the notes never get out early enough. They do allow me to reflect on them though.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#24
College students are adults, why don't we let them decide how they use their class time. If someone wants to pay to go to a university just to waste class time on a computer, that's their loss. For others, note taking on a laptop might be more efficient. Personally, I have terrible handwriting and would prefer to take notes digitally. If someone is seriously distracting people around them, then it makes sense to tell them to put their laptop away

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#25

How about banning classrooms in favor of laptops? Hyperbole sure, but I was an on class student who paid for distance learning because I preferred the freedom to take the class on my time, on 2x speed, and with the ability to pause and look things up. It was never worth it to go back to class. It begs the question: maybe it's the teaching method, and not the tool.

Couldn't agree more. Just because someone lectures about something doesn't mean it will stick in my head. Banning laptops is not he solution.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#26

Not that laptops in the classroom are the solution, but in general we need to change the teaching strategy in lower and higher education any way. We need high-tech, 2014+ ready educational facilities, curricula and teaching strategies. Laptops can certainly be distracting but trying to maintain the status quo isn't going to benefit anyone.

Do you have some concrete suggestions? I personally think that the place for high-tech solutions is for homework and maybe lab sections, not disrupting lectures.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#27

UC Berkeley student here; laptop bannings are actually relatively common in lectures. I've seen professors actually stop their lectures to yell at some student in the back until said student puts his laptop away. A relevant point that the article failed to mention was, laptop/tablet/smartphone usage distracts not only the user, but those around him as well [1]. Just having such a device in view lowers the comprehensi…

> A relevant point that the article failed to mention was, laptop/tablet/smartphone usage distracts not only the user, but those around him as well [1]. Just having such a device in view lowers the comprehension of material.

If you can't concentrate because the person next to you is on reddit you're going to have a hard time in an open office.

Full disclosure, I only skimmed this paper, but I'd say this study has very little in common with the actual scenario of a good professor giving a stimulating lecture.

People learn and take notes differently, students should be granted the respect to do whatever works best for them, professors' egos be damned.

EDIT: Not to mention these students are paying customers....if they choose to waste their time in class, that's up to them.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#28
Personally from my college experience I know that I have used my laptop in lectures for both good and evil. I have legitimately used it to google work, ideas and to open tabs on papers/etc. to read later. I also used to write code in all my programming lectures because programming lectures were dull otherwise, might as well make use of the time. However, there are many times I have opened up reddit or HN during lectures and 'checked-out' as the article suggested.

Sometimes I have paid for not listening to the lecture but the majority of the time it doesn't matter. The idea that I learned my college curriculum in lectures would be a joke. As a computer science student I learnt my trade in the labs and tutorials and interactive courses rarely from listening to a lecturer explain X, Y or Z.

The better the lecturer or the harder the module the more laptops that were closed in my lectures. My compiler design course for example, infamous for being the most difficult module no one dared open the laptop as there was too much knowledge to consume.

Lecturers can easily do a self-assessment survey of how engaged their class is and how interestingly they are presenting their material but how many heads are hidden behind laptop screens.

For the one lecturer who did ban laptops I have to say I went to absolutely none of his lectures unless I had coursework to submit. I found it a bit presumptuous that he could demand I close my laptop, I was not distracting him or disturbing the class.

You don't learn in lectures where lecturers read their slides to you laptop open or not. If the lecturers are going to waste my time with pointless reading of slides then I might as well do something useful on my laptop like my coursework or just read hacker news.

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#29
> "A wealth of studies on students’ use of computers in the classroom has accumulated to support this intuition. Among the most famous is a landmark Cornell University study from 2003 called “The Laptop and the Lecture,” wherein half of a class was allowed unfettered access to their computers during a lecture while the other half was asked to keep their laptops closed."

The problem is the lecture!

Teachers who don't engage students -- and lecturing rarely engages anyone -- push students away from material they don't care about. If students are engaged and laptops impede them, they'll put them away themselves. If you didn't engage the students, no amount of banning things they care about more than being lectured at will make them care.

If you have to ban something, ban the lecture and teachers who rely on lecturing at the expense of empathy and compassion for students.

Students are people like you and me. We use laptops in our work when they help and put them away when they don't. If we want students to learn about the world and how to succeed in it, let them work like we work, solving problems like we solve. Experiential, project-based learning does this automatically, at least with effective teachers. Lecturing doesn't. If you had a job you couldn't quit where your manager lectured at you all the time you'd get out your computer too.

HN just had a thread -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7739378 -- on the problems with lectures based on a Science Magazine article, "Lectures Aren’t Just Boring, They’re Ineffective, Too, Study Finds.” Here is my blog post with related notes from that thread -- "Why I avoid lecturing when I lead and teach" http://joshuaspodek.com/avoid-lecturing-lead-teach

Re: The case for banning laptops in the classroom.

#30

Socrates would have us ban note taking completely, because writing is a distraction and limit our ability to use our memory.

This is so true for me though. I've discovered that I learn more when I'm not taking notes.

Especially in Maths or CS where classrooms are great for building intuition or easing into a subject but textbooks are ubiquitous and easy to read.

Copying down a proof doesn't help me at all but doing it along with a professor (each mental step is easy to hold on to) gives me so much better results.

I imagine that I'm not the only such one.

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