Live data from Hacker News

Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

googleblog.blogspot.com

281–290 of 322 posts

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#281
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The comments here are rather disappointing. Most of them remind me of Clifford Stoll's famous rant: http://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirva... "This new thing isn't like the old thing, so it could never work."

>The truth in no online database will replace your daily newspaper, no CD-ROM can take the place of a competent teacher and no computer network will change the way government works. Sure called that wrong.

No kidding... change.org such a letdown.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that if my opinions are unlike yours, then I should not be visiting HN, or even voice my opinions? Not everyone on HN is from the US - US has a massive car problem, because Americans had a very strong car culture for 7 decades now - so for them, not having a car is "new". I come from a country where 25 years ago pretty much no one had a car, because you had to have a permission from the government to o…

This isn't even about cars (self driving or not) per se. It's about someone doing something different and all the comments amounting to this isn't how I'm used to things working, and I don't like change anyway . As Elon Musk puts it, you can't necessarily ask people what they want because the answers will be incremental updates to the status quo. Since you insisted on cars: the short answer is that theres lots of evi…

> 30000 people dead every year,

It's worse than that: the annual global estimates are 1.2 million dead, 50 million injured. [1]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_motor_vehicle_c...

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#283

The comments here are rather disappointing. It doesn't have manual controls? Well thats the point! I want to leave my crap in it and paint it some ugly color? Get with the times, young people already opt to not own cars. I can't double park in the city? Why are you imposing your steel box on people living in cities, many of which do not own cars and want walkable streets? I mean, this is the news website for a startu…

Are you saying that if my opinions are unlike yours, then I should not be visiting HN, or even voice my opinions? Not everyone on HN is from the US - US has a massive car problem, because Americans had a very strong car culture for 7 decades now - so for them, not having a car is "new". I come from a country where 25 years ago pretty much no one had a car, because you had to have a permission from the government to o…

I propose that the polarization of the opinions on this thread are due to the relationship between the relevance of the announcement and the time it'll take to become a mainstream polarizing issue. I tend to lurk on HN, mostly because I'm not on obsessively enough to have any relevant comments before a thread is mature. I think many lurkers share my interest in the subject matter, but are storing it away as a data point to be considered in the future rather than a policy discussion generator now.

I've broken out of my normal mode in case you actually believe that HN's general opinion on this technology is a consensus that entirely disagrees with you. Personally, I'm excited for the technology to become mature enough to become a consumer product, but I'm unlikely to remand control of my personal vehicle to automation if I don't plan on drinking.

I know that retaining my vain control obsession over my vehicle will eventually make me one of the more dangerous vehicles on the road (as the share of quality autonomous vehicles increases in the future), and I know that I'll buy one for my family (whenever that happens). Until my body fails me or I don't have enough time to drive, I'm going to ride my motorcycle and drive my car myself, while sincerely encouraging literally everyone else to get an autonomous vehicle. I know that there will be others like me, and I know that these people will either evolve into very good drivers or angry teenagers. Regardless, the road will be safer for all, and our collective time will be less wasted on piloting tasks.

You're not alone.

*EDIT I should note that I'm a U.S. resident. My daily commute is >50 mi, though I'm looking to relocate. Public transit doesn't exist for my home and work destinations without significant (>4 hours a day) layover and transit times.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#284
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The comments here are rather disappointing. Most of them remind me of Clifford Stoll's famous rant: http://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirva... "This new thing isn't like the old thing, so it could never work."

Stoll was one of the first to hop on the Internet bandwagon, and he thought he could get lucky twice by hopping off the fad before it became passe. As for the crazy from the other side, read anything by Nicholas Negroponte at the same time. A lot of young people, especially young hackers, think like authors of science fiction novels, where there is some grand society that they have designed, and how everything is hap…

> "No one owns a car" is not a nice transition, no matter how awesome you think it is in the latest novel you read about able-bodied and pretty 20-somethings. Public transportation really sucks in a lot of places precisely because making public transportation awesome gets less priority than a bunch of other things, like demanding that people get to bring their pets or bikes on board, or the homeless people using it as a place to sleep.

...

> Buses could be awesome, if they were managed like Google buses. I would love to take one of those to work. But look at all the grief they get from the left. Grand ideas for re-imagining society will face opposition from places you would never have imagined.

I think this is all a bit over the top. Many cities already exist that function very well substantially without private cars. Central London, although rather a pleasant place, is not a science fiction utopia exclusively filled with nubile twenty somethings, but nevertheless it functions overwhelmingly on other means of transport - buses, cycling, the underground, and taxis. I'm not aware of it being particularly unique, either. What you're suggesting as difficult or intractable problems are frankly rather minor. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've only ever come across the occasional over-chatty drunk.

Even taking into account the whole of London, including the much more suburban outer sections, where you really do need a car to get around, 40% of households do not own cars [1]

The real issue with public transport isn't the homeless, it's that it tends towards a hub and spokes model which works very well for commuting, but quickly becomes awkward for non-standard journeys. Driverless cars would add an excellent complementary element to the combined transport system. I expect that in a couple of decades the number of households that don't own cars will have gone up to 60%, meaning pretty much universal in the centre, and I don't anticipate that will create a dystopia.

[1] http://www.uncsbrp.org/driving.htm

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#285
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There also needs to be a 'pause for others' button so that a motorist in a side street can be let in to a congested road or for a motorist on the opposite side of the road wanting to turn can make their move. This is the usual scenario where a motorist flashes their lights to let someone through. As a cyclist/pedestrian I am always amazed by this altruistic side of motorists and it would be a shame if 'the computer s…

Actually, if as you approach a traffic signal, you cede control of the car to the signal, you can avoid red lights altogether as the smart signal shuffles the cars through without any of them hitting each other, handing off control back to the car after it passes through the intersection. A similar technique could be used on on-ramps.

I don't think the parent was talking about traffic signals, just a side road with a give way/yield.

If both roads are congested then "always let everybody in" and "never let anybody in" will both result in deadlock.

Another example is the pedestrian crossing outside my house. There's no traffic lights. Usually cars will drive right past and you (as a pedestrian) have to wait for a gap in the traffic, but sometimes they'll be nice and stop (especially for children).

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#286

I think many people against Google self-driving vehicle are worried about privacy issue. Well I say please bring out the self-driving cars asap. IMHO, big part of the first wave of customers to buy self-driving cars will be older drivers who are not allowed (or choose to) drive on their own. My parents are able to drive on their around now but are already getting worried about the day when they can't drive around on…

They don't really add any extra privacy issues than carrying around an android device in your pocket. Also even if you dislike Google, they are fairly transparent and would likely tell us if they are tracking the data, how do you know GM/Ford aren't already tracking vehicle routes and using this data?

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#288

https://maps.google.com/locationhistory right now google already knows where we have been; with the car they will know where we are going to; The car as a tracking device, pure genius.

No Dave, you can't go to that protest; really not possible....

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bus is possible, but if this was a viable business, it should exist already. The only difference is the cost of the driver, so the automated bus might save passengers $5/day. Is that $5/day extra cost keeping this business non-existent at the moment? I'm a little skeptical. Keep in mind your taxi service is cheap because it's on the road all the time. A taxi might make $250/day, and pay the driver half of that cost…

Everything relating to public transportation will be the major pain point. It is heavily regulated, subsidised, unionised, etc. London isn't able to replace ticket sellers with machines yet, so you can imagine how long it will take to replace the drivers. Alternatively, they will see this a profit eating activity and resist until the people wouldn't take it anymore.

When I was in London in 2009 I bought metro and surface train tickets from a machine.

Re: Just press go: designing a self-driving vehicle

#290
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about something simple like telling the car, "back up 10 feet" or "move to the spot across the street". This is dead simple short range routes...

How does one "tell" the car what to do without controls ? I hope you're not suggesting voice recognition because anything less than 100% accuracy will guarantee accidents and possibly deaths.

Because it would have to immediately take the action without any sort of verification check?

I wouldn't want to ride in that car either, but that's not how anyone remotely intelligent would design it. We're not talking about unscoped directions either which is a much less harder problem then general recognition.

Post reply on HN