Don't mess with Newegg • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#131

Post by jessaustin » Fri, May 23, 2014, 12:28 PM UTC

sgdesign wrote: post #22

> Thanks to the efforts of Lee Cheng and his legal team, the Federal Circuit Court of Appeals ordered a trial court to reconsider its earlier denial of Newegg’s request for attorneys’ fees and costs in the patent infringement lawsuit brought on by SUS. Wait, so what did the trial court conclude? Are they making the troll pay or not? I feel like I'm missing something? Also, isn't it worrying that they had to appeal in…

IANAL: The trial court had found for Newegg on the infringement case, but had not taken the additional step of awarding attorney's fees to Newegg. The appeals court has now recommended that the trial court take that additional step. The appeals court doesn't have time to wade through reams of legal invoices. Actually the trial court may have been trying to avoid that as well, but now it has no choice.

It's my impression that courts don't want to award attorney's fees to civil defendants very often, because that would discourage litigation. I think it's reserved for obviously "frivolous" cases. Therefore the need to appeal doesn't seem like a problem.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#132

Post by thyrsus » Fri, May 23, 2014, 12:34 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #128

I wonder if someone has patented the idea of sue for patents that you never actually use... Would love to see patent trolls sued for trying to sue for patents they don't use.

Yup: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/08/01/157743897/can-you-...

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#133

Post by coldpie » Fri, May 23, 2014, 12:36 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #117

dagw wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent company simply writes that into the license. Companies like Intellectual Ventures set up a shell company and give that company a time limited exclusive right to some patents, including the right to sue other companies for infringement, during that time period. In exchange for this exclusive license the shell company agrees to pay, let's say, 95% of any revenue generated by sub-licensing or court settlement…

Incredible that such a transparent strategy would not be punctured in court. Just requiring that the principal holder of a patent is the only one with standing to sue for infringement would get rid of this particular trick immediately.

Yeah, that's why one of the major target reforms is being able to track the ownership chain up to the actual patent owner. This would allow courts to reward damages directly from the actual perpetrator to the victims of patent trolling, rather than this shell game nonsense.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#134

Post by fusionefredda » Fri, May 23, 2014, 12:37 PM UTC

I hope for the patent trolls the same that happens to SCO

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#135

Post by theandrewbailey » Fri, May 23, 2014, 12:46 PM UTC

tdicola wrote: post #4

Wow I love that they're taking a stand, and got quite a laugh out of the image. Definitely makes me want to support Newegg as a customer much more in the future.

I'm proud to be a Newegg customer because they call me their customer, not their consumer.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#136

Post by djb_hackernews » Fri, May 23, 2014, 12:58 PM UTC

> the defense managed to move the trial out of the Eastern District of Texas, a jurisdiction that is known for favoring plaintiffs in patent suits.

They REALLY need to publish how they did that, because that'll help every other company battling patent trolls.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#137

Post by gorner » Fri, May 23, 2014, 12:59 PM UTC

taude wrote: post #127

mixmax wrote: post #14

It seems to me that the legal system in the US is largely broken, and that just about anyone can be sued if only you find the right grounds. Being sued and defending yourself is enormously expensive which is what patent trolls exploit. Why not use this offensively against patent trolls? Find all sorts of ways to take them to court, the American legal seems to have plenty of opportunities in that regard. There are som…

It's weird that 40-45% of Congress is attorneys.

Well, their (nominal) job _is_ to make laws. Members of Congress should be able to read and understand them before voting on them.

But a more representative sample of occupations would be great too.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#138

Post by mhandley » Fri, May 23, 2014, 1:00 PM UTC

bsder wrote: post #21

mixmax wrote: post #14

It seems to me that the legal system in the US is largely broken, and that just about anyone can be sued if only you find the right grounds. Being sued and defending yourself is enormously expensive which is what patent trolls exploit. Why not use this offensively against patent trolls? Find all sorts of ways to take them to court, the American legal seems to have plenty of opportunities in that regard. There are som…

And the troll companies are always shell companies with nothing but the patents. So, even if you win, the shell company will declare bankruptcy. This is what changed the game. Before, two big companies generally had enough patents that they would simply agree to cross license because they both infringed one another's patents. So, for the company being sued, it's a no win situation.

In one British case I was involved in, the troll's strategy was so obvious they were required to put up a bond to cover at least part of our side's legal fees if they lost. That's a pretty good way to reduce completely frivolous cases.

They did eventually lose (we invalidated their patent). We were still out of pocket, but if their patent had been even weaker, I think they'd have backed out when they had to post the bond.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#139

Post by randallsquared » Fri, May 23, 2014, 1:00 PM UTC

taude wrote: post #127

mixmax wrote: post #14

It seems to me that the legal system in the US is largely broken, and that just about anyone can be sued if only you find the right grounds. Being sued and defending yourself is enormously expensive which is what patent trolls exploit. Why not use this offensively against patent trolls? Find all sorts of ways to take them to court, the American legal seems to have plenty of opportunities in that regard. There are som…

It's weird that 40-45% of Congress is attorneys.

On the face of it, it doesn't seem any more odd than that judges are usually attorneys. Also, you'd expect people who are more involved with arguing the law to gravitate toward trying to get the job that involves creating or amending the law.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#140

Post by bcohen5055 » Fri, May 23, 2014, 1:10 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #102

wutbrodo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN community collectively hasn't ever been able to grasp this concept; apparently if a corporation has any possible benefit from an action, it MUST be the motivation behind the action. It's a particularly delightful cop-out because any positive action (including philanthropy) can be dismissed as a PR move.

I vaguely remember reading about some philosophy where there was no such thing as a selfless act, as you always get something out of it, even if it's just a warm fuzzy feeling inside. That's just one example of why I find most of philosophy to be a complete waste of time.

I think you are referring to economics...