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Don't mess with Newegg

blog.newegg.com

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Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#121

Post by weland »

edanm wrote: post #119
weland wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, this should not be dealt with at a company level, since the shell company is arguably not engaged in any economic activity: their juridical entity is, essentially, worthless. Instead, given the toxic economic climate the people behind it create, this should be transported into criminal charges brought against the make-believe CEOs behind the shell companies that specifically engage in patent trolling. They're a…

If everyone agrees that it's a "con", as you put it, wouldn't it be easier to just change the rules to prevent it happening, instead of letting it still happen but criminalizing people who do it? There's a system, there are rules. Some people have found ways to utilize those rules which many of us think are bad. The solution should be to change the system and the rules , not criminalize more people for doing somethin…

I'm not sure if that could be worked out in a fair manner. Holding patents as a nearly-bankrupt company that's essentially out of business is not necessarily to be forbidden -- it can still be used constructively, e.g. by licensing them free of charge to non-profit organizations in order to relieve some of the uncertainty of potential donors. Just like with extortion, the fact that it can be punished is pretty much the best deterrent we have.

Of course, the real solution would be to stop all this software patent nonsense, but that's so last year.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#122

Post by happy_slappy »

mixmax wrote: post #14

It seems to me that the legal system in the US is largely broken, and that just about anyone can be sued if only you find the right grounds. Being sued and defending yourself is enormously expensive which is what patent trolls exploit. Why not use this offensively against patent trolls? Find all sorts of ways to take them to court, the American legal seems to have plenty of opportunities in that regard. There are som…

Why not name and shame all of the scum bags that are involved with these patent trolls?

Post up the lawyer names, the company owner names etc. Harass them, DDOS their websites, hack their email, ruin their online presence, attack their family, etc.

Make it a job that is incompatible with a normal place in society

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#123

Post by throwaway7767 »

I really appreciate the NewEgg strategy in these cases. They're fighting the good fight. And it's a great move to make the most PR splash from their victories to discourage future trolls.

If only they shipped outside the US, I would give them all my business. :)

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#124

Post by zo1 »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #60

Lee is a hero. Most patent lawyers talk in very measured tones when it comes to patent trolls, because they don't want to foreclose the possibility of feeding at the money faucet themselves. Lee doesn't give a fuck. He straight up calls them thieves and asshats. Baller status.

Agreed. The first step to fixing any vague/grey problem is calling it by its real name. If only we could hold our politicians to such a standard, patent reform wouldn't be an issue as it'd already be fixed.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#125

Post by deong »

jacquesm wrote: post #117
dagw wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent company simply writes that into the license. Companies like Intellectual Ventures set up a shell company and give that company a time limited exclusive right to some patents, including the right to sue other companies for infringement, during that time period. In exchange for this exclusive license the shell company agrees to pay, let's say, 95% of any revenue generated by sub-licensing or court settlement…

Incredible that such a transparent strategy would not be punctured in court. Just requiring that the principal holder of a patent is the only one with standing to sue for infringement would get rid of this particular trick immediately.

Presumably what would happen in that case is that the parent company would sell the patent to the shell company, who would then just sell it back as soon as there was any threat that a victim was going to fight it in court.

It's still an improvement, but I'm sure that there are plenty of even cleverer ways to get around this than my off-the-cuff guess.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#126

Post by rmrfrmrf »

joshjdr wrote: post #70
lotharbot wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I was just trying to present some truth" Here on HN, we don't want mere truth. We also optimize for interesting and directly relevant comments. "Newegg egregiously screwed up a return for me" may be true, but how exactly is it interesting or relevant in a discussion about their response to patent trolls?

The response here has been a surge of "I'd do more business with Newegg because of this." I stated my point. I agree with this point of the article, but I wouldn't do business with these guys. For the record, the letter previously published outlined exactly what happened. They shipped me an item that came out of the box broken. When I wrote to them they responded acknowledging, and issued an RMA. When they received t…

IMO you're getting downvoted [sidenote: I wouldn't worry about karma so much] because your complaint is sort of analogous to complaining about higher prices at the Mom-and-Pop store across the street from the Walmart Supercenter.

Newegg's "strict" RMA policies are often compared to the much-larger Amazon, who practically allows you to set a purchased item ablaze and return it for a full refund, no questions asked. Amazon will even pay for the return shipping in most cases.

Sure, you can get better customer service from Amazon, just like you can get the same brand-name products from Walmart for cheaper than the Mom-and-Pop, but "supporting" a business typically implies sacrificing some sort of convenience (or money) because you believe in a business's philosophy. Since you were eventually reimbursed for the defective merchandise, you actually fared pretty well.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#127

Post by taude »

mixmax wrote: post #14

It seems to me that the legal system in the US is largely broken, and that just about anyone can be sued if only you find the right grounds. Being sued and defending yourself is enormously expensive which is what patent trolls exploit. Why not use this offensively against patent trolls? Find all sorts of ways to take them to court, the American legal seems to have plenty of opportunities in that regard. There are som…

It's weird that 40-45% of Congress is attorneys.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#129

Post by hnnewguy »

lotharbot wrote: post #73
joshjdr wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The response here has been a surge of "I'd do more business with Newegg because of this." I stated my point. I agree with this point of the article, but I wouldn't do business with these guys. For the record, the letter previously published outlined exactly what happened. They shipped me an item that came out of the box broken. When I wrote to them they responded acknowledging, and issued an RMA. When they received t…

> "I am surprised I am losing karma for this. For what? An opposing view?" As I said above, here on HN, mere truth is not enough to make us consider a comment to be a positive contribution. We select for interesting and directly relevant comments. Your comment is honest, but doesn't particularly add value to the discussion; you might consider it relevant, but I find it tangential and uninteresting. Downvotes are the…

>"As I said above, here on HN, mere truth is not enough to make us consider a comment to be a positive contribution."

It sounds like you'd like to think your community-of-choice is unique, but get over it. There is no "we" here, nor is there some amazing comment quality optimization going on. This place goes hive-mind like any other forum on the internet. "We're" not special.

Re: Don't mess with Newegg

#130

Post by mcherm »

weland wrote: post #104
bsder wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the troll companies are always shell companies with nothing but the patents. So, even if you win, the shell company will declare bankruptcy. This is what changed the game. Before, two big companies generally had enough patents that they would simply agree to cross license because they both infringed one another's patents. So, for the company being sued, it's a no win situation.

IMHO, this should not be dealt with at a company level, since the shell company is arguably not engaged in any economic activity: their juridical entity is, essentially, worthless. Instead, given the toxic economic climate the people behind it create, this should be transported into criminal charges brought against the make-believe CEOs behind the shell companies that specifically engage in patent trolling. They're a…

> this should be transported into criminal charges brought against the make-believe CEOs behind the shell companies

Ah, but the original proposal was for individuals to file lawsuits. Individuals cannot press criminal charges -- only the state (in the form of the prosecutor's office) can do that. And the state can not (and SHOULD NOT) use that power to go after individuals because we don't like those people, or because we don't like who they work for, or because we don't like what the companies they work for do.

THAT would be abuse of power.

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