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The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

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Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#21

Post by JPKab »

bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

I've noticed that a lot of the "busiest" people are the least productive. I suspect its a defense mechanism for people who, at least on a subconscious level, realize how unproductive and meaningless their job and/or output at a job really is.

My wife's sister and her husband are both the two "busiest" people you will ever meet. Yet when I spend time with them, I'm reminded of the fact that neither of them is very intelligent (perhaps the wrong word, but put another way they have no depth of understanding about anything outside of their jobs in cargo transport, zero creativity or appreciation of any kind of art, and little to zero knowledge of world events) and they don't seem to progress any quicker in their careers. In fact, as my wife has noted, they have lagged behind us and all of our friends who enjoy a healthy work-life balance. There is nothing scientific here about this anecdote, of course. I think that perhaps the easiest way to be extremely busy all the time is to not step back, take a breath, and think about a more efficient way to accomplish task X.

In a culture where status is attained through work, if you lack the creativity and skills to be a standout wizard who breezes through and builds cool shit that others think they could never do (translations: anyone on HN) then perhaps "busy" is the other way to earn some semblance of status.

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#22

Post by dobbsbob »

tseabrooks wrote: post #12
bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

Question on those 6 weeks. I've heard before that some countries include national holidays in there 5-6 week count. Is that the case here? Generally when Americans are listing their vacation days they are not including what they view as mandatory holidays (Memorial day, july 4th, thanksgiving, christmas, new years, etc). FWIW, I'm in the US and we have ~5-6 weeks vacation.

Highschool I worked for Lufthansa here in North America, it was common to see Germans fly over their bikes to go on a 2 month road trip while on paid vacation.

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#24

Post by Dewie »

bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

> It could also help individual people to cope with social anxieties by being "busy".

I can't even tell you how incredibly "busy" I was during recess in high school. Also during free hours and any kind of down time... so much to do!

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#25

Post by cryoshon »

onion2k wrote: post #8

"High pay is highly rewarding," Kolbert writes, and in a winner-take-all economy, we're motivated to put in extra-long hours to, well, win. We trade time for money. If you enjoy your work, and someone is willing to give you a large sum of money for your time, then working long hours makes sense... but only if you couldn't be doing something that you'd like even more than money with that time. For example, a reasonabl…

A lot of the time it's not particularly a fair trade, either.

Salaried employees can typically be forced to work upwards of the 40 hours they are officially bartering with for money. The money doesn't scale with time or effort put in, which is one of the contributing causes to burnout and do-nothing-but-still-so-"busy"-ism.

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#26

Post by cryoshon »

nowlnowl wrote: post #4

As a European I am always amazed how much the US-citizen work. Very little vacation, very little security and a atmosphere of a very (very very, haha) competetive nature.

Yeah, it's absolutely disgusting how desperate and beaten down the American proliteriat is. We have to ask permission to take vacation or sick days, and both are frowned upon. How long you are seen to be working is a very important statistic for workplace prestige, far eclipsing the actual amount or quality of work done. It's important to be seen working long hours, that way when the lay-offs come (and they will come) you aren't in the "slacker" pile like the people only working 9 to 6. Most people think this is the normal and right way to do things, and are fearful of "lazy" systems practiced by the effeminate Europeans. I'm not exaggerating. People actually think this.

I'm not sure there's anyone with a spine to make it change; when I've raised the issue of unionization to my co-workers I tend to get blank or vaguely fearful stares for bringing up something so untouchably controversial.

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#27

Post by pc86 »

bitL wrote: post #14
tseabrooks wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question on those 6 weeks. I've heard before that some countries include national holidays in there 5-6 week count. Is that the case here? Generally when Americans are listing their vacation days they are not including what they view as mandatory holidays (Memorial day, july 4th, thanksgiving, christmas, new years, etc). FWIW, I'm in the US and we have ~5-6 weeks vacation.

I am currently in Germany, 6 weeks is basically a standard excluding holidays (which is up to 13 extra days depending on the state and weekend overlay as there are no bank holidays). So in the end you can end up with ~8 weeks. Minimum vacation days as specified by the law is 4 weeks. Most of my friends in the US start with 2 weeks, after a few years they get 3 weeks, then these are reset if they change the job, and i…

I have not, nor have I ever met anyone who has, been expected to work or even be available on a vacation. I've also never taken or been offered a job with less than 3 weeks vacation to start. Current job (been here for 2 months) is 25 paid days off plus ten or so holidays. This seems to be a common criticism of the US but I've been in the professional workforce for just about a decade and have never come across this. I've worked remotely, for small companies with ten employees and Fortune 500 companies. I just don't believe there are people taking jobs where they get 10 days off a year and are expected to answer a phone call from their boss on vacation, unless they are 1) interns; 2) non-professional jobs, service industry, etc; 3) at the very beginning of their career (I could see this happening with more predatory employers with the huge number of unemployed recent grads looking for works).

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#28

Post by LaikaF »

rayiner wrote: post #19
bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

> I don't believe people can be super-productive more than 5 hours a day unless they work on something they are passionate about or are on drugs. I assume you're a software engineer? It's a particularly mentally intensive job, and I don't think your experience is easily generalizable. Jobs that don't require that level of creativity and where you can rely more on memorized processes are easier to do for extended peri…

I can very easily be productive for 8 hours at my second job at a beer distributer.

My other job doing email tech support I struggle to not take a five minute break every hour to clear my head. I still get bellow five hours a day of productivity because I have to sit in a ton of meetings on the off chance that I might need to say something or they just want more eyes on whatever they're doing.

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#29

Post by 0xdeadbeefbabe »

bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

> It could also help individual people to cope with social anxieties by being "busy".

Yes, and sometimes meetings serve only this purpose. For example, oh I'm sorry Mr. X is in a meeting that he has scheduled for every time you call.

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#30

Post by mreiland »

JPKab wrote: post #21
bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

I've noticed that a lot of the "busiest" people are the least productive. I suspect its a defense mechanism for people who, at least on a subconscious level, realize how unproductive and meaningless their job and/or output at a job really is. My wife's sister and her husband are both the two "busiest" people you will ever meet. Yet when I spend time with them, I'm reminded of the fact that neither of them is very int…

maybe you should stop judging your wife's sister and her husband, and/or start being as critical of yourselves as you are of them.
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