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The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#11

Post by bitL »

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with social anxieties by being "busy".

I wouldn't be surprised if the same were happening in the States. I don't believe people can be super-productive more than 5 hours a day unless they work on something they are passionate about or are on drugs.

From my experience, just walking away from a difficult problem, taking time to walk in the forest, relax on the beach, playing sports with friends, doing completely unrelated relaxing things with total focus often leads to sudden inspirations on how to tackle difficult problems. It's like life is telling me to relax and rewards me with great ideas that can be immediately executed, for being just well balanced.

I remember flying with one US businessman between Hawaiian islands, and he curiously asked me how many vacation days do I have - when I told him it's 6 weeks, he went on to complain about how crazy is it in the States, with average of 8.5 day or so of vacation per year.

People, please live your lives!

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#12

Post by tseabrooks »

bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

Question on those 6 weeks. I've heard before that some countries include national holidays in there 5-6 week count. Is that the case here? Generally when Americans are listing their vacation days they are not including what they view as mandatory holidays (Memorial day, july 4th, thanksgiving, christmas, new years, etc).

FWIW, I'm in the US and we have ~5-6 weeks vacation.

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#13

Post by forgottenpass »

Here is a blog post by a psychiatrist on work/life balance. Basically: One of our time's great sociological questions is why we filled downtime back up with work, and the reason is it's better than alcoholism.

Try to look past the writing style you probably won't like at first: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2014/01/randi_zuckerberg.html

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#14

Post by bitL »

tseabrooks wrote: post #12
bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

Question on those 6 weeks. I've heard before that some countries include national holidays in there 5-6 week count. Is that the case here? Generally when Americans are listing their vacation days they are not including what they view as mandatory holidays (Memorial day, july 4th, thanksgiving, christmas, new years, etc). FWIW, I'm in the US and we have ~5-6 weeks vacation.

I am currently in Germany, 6 weeks is basically a standard excluding holidays (which is up to 13 extra days depending on the state and weekend overlay as there are no bank holidays). So in the end you can end up with ~8 weeks. Minimum vacation days as specified by the law is 4 weeks.

Most of my friends in the US start with 2 weeks, after a few years they get 3 weeks, then these are reset if they change the job, and if they take a vacation, they are either frowned upon or they have to be available to work on a moments notice. I find this utterly crazy.

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#15

Post by mtbcoder »

Shivetya wrote: post #9
nowlnowl wrote: post #4

As a European I am always amazed how much the US-citizen work. Very little vacation, very little security and a atmosphere of a very (very very, haha) competetive nature.

As an American I am always laughing each time I read this. There are people on both sides who choose to work a long number of hours. I would not be surprised to read the numbers are not to dissimilar. Far too much of this workaholic issue only occurs because people want lifestyles they otherwise could not afford. Two cars, the big house or exclusive location, the island vacations, and such, are not necessary for a ha…

I will disagree with your first point. As a European who has lived in the US now for over a decade, I can say the OP is correct. Yes, there are people in Europe who do put in long hours, but the overall atmosphere/attitude (for lack of better terms) of work is remarkably different. In the US, you can work without abandon, all day, every day, take no vacation or personal time, neglect your time at home and be hailed as an exemplary for your work ethic. In Europe, the pervasive attitude towards a lifestyle like this is quite contrary to being exemplary. Failing to take vacation time is frowned upon to say the least and often is forbidden depending on your location. Even something a small as working on Sundays will bring disdain from your neighbours. Again, this is not to say that you cannot find the US "work lifestyle" in Europe, it's just that it is not as glorified as it is in the US.

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#16

Post by alistairSH »

tseabrooks wrote: post #12
bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

Question on those 6 weeks. I've heard before that some countries include national holidays in there 5-6 week count. Is that the case here? Generally when Americans are listing their vacation days they are not including what they view as mandatory holidays (Memorial day, july 4th, thanksgiving, christmas, new years, etc). FWIW, I'm in the US and we have ~5-6 weeks vacation.

That 5-6 weeks is well outside he norm in the US.

In my experience, to get that much leave, you have to work at the same company for 5+ years. And either be highly-paid white collar OR highly paid union.

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/business-economics/the-unite... http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ebs.t05.htm

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#17

Post by lmm »

tseabrooks wrote: post #12
bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

Question on those 6 weeks. I've heard before that some countries include national holidays in there 5-6 week count. Is that the case here? Generally when Americans are listing their vacation days they are not including what they view as mandatory holidays (Memorial day, july 4th, thanksgiving, christmas, new years, etc). FWIW, I'm in the US and we have ~5-6 weeks vacation.

UK guy here; it's 5-6 weeks in addition to national holidays (which are normally 8 days/year).

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#18

Post by Avshalom »

tseabrooks wrote: post #12
bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

Question on those 6 weeks. I've heard before that some countries include national holidays in there 5-6 week count. Is that the case here? Generally when Americans are listing their vacation days they are not including what they view as mandatory holidays (Memorial day, july 4th, thanksgiving, christmas, new years, etc). FWIW, I'm in the US and we have ~5-6 weeks vacation.

None of those are mandatory holidays in the US.

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#19

Post by rayiner »

bitL wrote: post #11

I have a feeling that "being busy" is just a gentle form of crowd control. I could see it in Japan, people being terribly busy at work, yet producing very little, spending most of the time during the day at job, unable to do anything in their spare time. I guess that's how Asian society makes sure there is no unexpected creativity leading to "interesting times". It could also help individual people to cope with socia…

> I don't believe people can be super-productive more than 5 hours a day unless they work on something they are passionate about or are on drugs.

I assume you're a software engineer? It's a particularly mentally intensive job, and I don't think your experience is easily generalizable. Jobs that don't require that level of creativity and where you can rely more on memorized processes are easier to do for extended periods of time. Say you're an insurance adjuster. Most of the claims that cross your desk are not unusual and do not require special handling. I bet you could do that productively for 8 hours a day.

Re: The Myth That Americans Are Busier Than Ever

#20

Post by michaelochurch »

Work hours have been steady to slightly declining, especially factoring in higher unemployment, longer between-jobs periods, and (one good change) the increase of remote work, as people just get sick of spending 8 hours in an white-painted anxiety-box that, in many cases, has nothing to do with getting work done.

Work-related anxiety has gone way up. People work slightly shorter days (8-9 hours for white-collar workers instead of 9-10) but are a lot more drained at the end of them. In software, this is due to tightly-packed open-plan offices, increasingly unreasonable expectations regarding availability and timeframe, and declining autonomy due to the abuse of technology and processes (like "Agile", which started with great intentions).

The real work has gotten easier (in some cases, so much easier as to be an anxiety-causing factor in its own right, due to boredom) and hours have gone down slightly (but with more variance) but the full-time impression management job has become more competitive, much more mean-spirited, and far more draining.

Watch Mad Men. It explains so much more about white-collar culture than I could ever get into here. At the time, that was the most stressful, painful, and socially demanding white-collar job in the country-- which is why people doing it, by the standards of the time, were paid extremely well. Now, that's the mainstream corporate culture.

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